Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Ding Dong v. Ring Ding
Episode Date: April 25, 2024Conan talks to Margaret from Calgary about intuitive composition, music in nature for early childhood, and Conan’s very own personalized musical motif. Wanna get a chance to talk to Conan? Submit h...ere: teamcoco.com/apply
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Okay, let's get started.
Hi, Margaret, welcome to Conan O'Brien needs a fan.
Well, hello there, Matt, Conan, Sona, is that Sona?
Yeah, that's Sona.
Oh my gosh.
It's a Sona lookalike we hired.
This is amazing.
On the occasion. Sona hasn't, it is. Oh my gosh. It's a Sona look-alike we hired. This is amazing. For the occasion.
Sona hasn't been seen in months.
Yeah.
Well, I had my face in front of her face.
Yeah, we called a Bar Mitzvah entertainment place.
We said we need a Sona look-alike.
They said, we've got seven.
Okay, your name is Margaret.
Can she hear us?
Can you hear us, Margaret?
Did you lose us, Margaret?
Margaret, can you hear us? Yeah, I can now, Did you black out there for a second? Yeah, I did.
Okay, you're good now. But now I've gotcha. Okay, let's start at the beginning. Hello
there Margaret, how are you? I'm great, thank you Conan. Good to see you Sona, Matt. I love
the way you said my name. How did you say my name again? Oh God, I'm like such an improviser.
Conan?
Yeah, that's it.
Oh, that's it.
The last time she said it, didn't it sound a little different?
Didn't it sound a little Conan?
Conan?
Conan?
Conan, I liked it.
Oh, did I say Conan?
Yeah, Conan.
I might have said Conan.
Yes.
Yeah, where are you coming from?
Where are you, I mean, emotionally, no.
Where are you in the world right now?
Where are you zooming in from?
Emotionally I'm about as, I'm like above my head, emotionally.
Is there a place out of your head?
I am in Calgary, Canada.
Okay, so maybe that's what I was hearing.
Maybe there's a little bit of a Canadian.
Oh yeah, eh?
Oh yeah, eh?
Go on, yeah?
Yeah.
You're in Calgary, Canada.
And tell us-
I'm told that my kids say
you're not supposed to make fun of accents.
Oh, I wasn't making fun.
I was, of course, just showing.
She was making fun.
She was saying hey and stuff, not you.
Oh, well then you're a terrible person.
I would never speak to you again.
You're a terrible person, Margaret.
And I think your kids are right.
Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Well, I am, obviously I'm a mom.
I'm a recent empty nester.
Oh.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I kinda emptied the nest a bit.
I'm one of those unusual, it's funny.
Did you murder your family?
Oh my God.
Oh my God.
Time for this nest to be emptied.
Closed. I kinda, my kids were away and then I sold my town home Oh my god, time for this nest to be emptied! Close.
My kids were away and then I sold my town home.
Wow.
So I kind of sold the nest.
Oh.
Wait a minute, how old are your kids, like seven and eight?
How old are they?
They are, they're 19 and 21.
Okay, that's still pretty young.
It's still pretty young.
Well, okay, so the serious side of the story is I have elderly parents.
I'm the youngest of four and I'm the only single divorced one.
And so when we thought, you know, it was getting to be the time where it felt like my parents could use some eyes on the ground
and someone in there that could really,
just be there and make sure they don't need more support.
So my daughter happened to be in Au Pair in Italy
at the time and my son was living with his dad.
So I was like, all right, guys, go and make a life.
Go and make a life.
I gave you the first 19 years.
That's nice. I have said to Sona many times, hey, could you do me a favor, go and make a life. I gave you the first 19 years. That's nice.
I have said to Sona many times,
hey, could you do me a favor, go and make a life.
And she made two.
She made two.
Well, she's got more on me then and my kids.
I don't know, you seem formidable, Margaret.
And tell us, so did you grow up in Calgary?
Tell us about your life.
I kind of did.
Well, it's funny.
So I was born here, but my parents came from,
well, eventually, they were in Oklahoma
when I was conceived, but they're New Yorkers
and moved around a ton.
And so when I was three,
we moved back into the US for a few years.
So long story
short, I'm Canadian. I grew up here mostly other than living in the States for a few
years here and there, but I don't feel super Canadian because I was raised by Americans.
Understood. And I see that there's a-
And there's a big difference. There is a big difference, yes. I noticed
that there's a piano right behind you. There is a big difference, yes. I noticed that there's a piano right behind you. There is.
Is that just a coincidence or are you?
Whoa.
I sort of took advantage of the moving in with my parents thing.
And I took this career I've had.
I've been a piano teacher and early childhood teacher
for almost 40 years now.
I'm in my early 50s, but I started young.
And I kind of did this now or never thing and
thought, okay, if I don't have to pay my mortgage quite as, you know, if I don't need quite as much
financial support, I'm going to go for it. And I started a couple of unusual musical offerings.
So I'm a pianist, obviously, I hope with that. I just made that clear, because
I'm not super concise in this setting. No, that's okay. No, you put the main
information at the end, but that's fine. In editing, we can put the main information up front.
I'm a pianist, but then I also... So you're a pianist, and do you teach kids the piano,
or do you teach them all kinds of music?
Well, I do teach piano because it's kind of like
the easiest place to put up a sign and say,
hey, help me with my career
and allow me to connect with kids.
So that's really important.
Then I also do this thing called intuitive composing
where I compose personal soundtracks for people
based on, I guess, my intuition,
my years of studying and being immersed in music.
And then-
Are you saying that you could talk to me for a little bit,
get a sense of who I was,
and then compose a song about me?
Yeah, let's do this.
I can, yes.
And what's-
It's crazy, I know, I know.
It's not crazy, I absolutely believe you could do it.
What kind of song would you,
what would the song sound like?
The Jaws theme.
No, not the Jaws theme, the Halloween theme.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, everyone have some.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay, everyone has. Yeah. Yay.
That's.
That one's actually, I think it's actually a combination
of the two.
Yeah.
The sick thing is.
Can you play the bass and the.
Oh my God.
Yes.
Oh my God.
Margaret, that is me.
Amazing.
That is you.
That is me, menacing and clownish at the same time.
Wow. That is me, that is me. Amazing, that is you. That is me, menacing and clownish at the same time.
Wow.
That is amazing.
It's funny, cause I really worked not to write it
or create anything for you guys,
even though I knew I was gonna be on the show
until the weekend it just came to me.
And Conan, I'll be honest,
now I don't know if I should say Conan or Conan.
No, no, whatever you, you know,
as long as it's don't sit with respect and love, I'm fine.
Is Bugs Bunny, Carl Stalling?
I just kept thinking.
What does that sound like?
Do you guys know?
I know Carl Stalling.
Yeah, yeah, I know Carl Stalling.
Did you watch Bugs Bunny?
Yes, yes, but which tune specifically?
Well, any of them,
because I feel like you could be followed around by a
weep, weep, weep, weep, doodly-doodly-doodly-doodly-doodly-doodly
you know, wah-wah-wah-wah-wah
cause you do it in your podcasts.
Yes, Margaret, it's funny you say that about Bugs Bunny
and how the Bugs Bunny themes and background music
remind you of me because I've always thought
I was a cartoon character.
I've felt that way my whole life.
Yeah.
I love it.
Yeah.
So that's a very apt perception.
And I will take it.
Well, I think, I mean, I was an avid cartoon watcher and your Bugs Bunny was the thing.
And when you tend to do those like da-da-da-da da, and you go into the funny accents like the,
here, see, I don't wanna, you know, you live in that.
I swear you live in a live world of Carl Stolling.
Yes, I do, Margaret.
And I, you just showed me myself,
and now I'm filled with dread.
Oh no, oh no no no.
I don't wanna be near that guy.
But you know what I love? Are you kidding?
You know what I love, Margaret?
I love that you're working with kids
and you're making this music and you say intuitive music.
So are they always using instruments
or are they using stuff other than instruments
sometimes to make music?
Okay, well, so the intuitive composing
is the one of the things I'm offering.
And the other thing, when I'm working with early childhood, so children that are five
and under, it's called music in nature.
And the intuitive side of that is just working with what is around and following the sort
of the children as they explore and then creating activities based on that.
So for example, we're out in a natural park,
you know, if the children, if we find sticks,
we're using the sticks and we're playing drums on the trees
or we're playing a graded fence xylophone
and we're sort of touring the park.
And I'm creating, I mean, I obviously have a lot of songs
I've created and activities to lead, but if something, you know,
occurs to a child or even sometimes a parent,
then I just, you know, change gears
and try to follow their lead in that respect.
That sounds kind of fascinating
because what you're doing is taking anything around you
that's found and then showing kids this can be music, or if not music,
we can make noises with this.
And then it's actually probably the most simplest form
of creativity and a great thing for kids to learn,
I would think.
Well, yeah, I think so because I mean,
arguably just in any art, like any sound is music, right?
And so what's fascinating too is you can teach children
so many things, you know, like we spend a lot of time
at the river and so right now in Calgary,
we've got a lot of ice on the river's edge.
So if we can yank pieces of ice off and we can, you know,
hit the rocks with them,
they make these incredible exploding sounds.
But at the same time, children, you know, they're little brains, they make these incredible exploding sounds, but at the same time, children,
their little brains, they're learning about the physics, if we throw things, how things
land.
I hope they're also learning, stay away from an icy river.
Are there parents that get worried about the kids, and you're saying, hey, jump into that
canyon and try and see if you can find something to make music out of.
This is the woman that also sent her kids packing at seven.
Let's walk on this really thin ice
and see how many cracks we can make.
Yeah, I know, Matt just pointed out,
you told your kids to get lost at 17.
I'm pretty careful.
There's a guest room here for them.
Oh yeah, always nice to have a guest room for your-
Sort of, a couch. Five-year-old.
There's a couch.
You're a five-year-old. Hey, five-year-old, we to have a guest room for your five year old. Sort of, a couch, there's a couch. For your five year old.
Hey, five year old, we got you a guest room.
For when you're not working at the docks.
I'm busy writing intuitive music, so you're gonna have to sleep in a guest room.
Yeah. But so say today, like we're in a freeze melt pattern, the extremes, right?
And so today I had little kids that were in their rubber boots and rain suits and, you
know, holding my hands.
We were literally walking in the river, you know, the temperatures, I guess it's in the
high fifts right now,
speaking your language of Fahrenheit.
Well, we are the-
Which is very warm.
We are the dominant empire, so.
Oh my God.
Oh, geez.
I'm sorry, we're like the Rome, you know.
The one country.
Well, you're welcome to your strange methods,
Celsius and such, but.
Yeah, we really have our shit together.
Well, we do.
We invented the ring ding.
It's a ring ding.
What?
It's a cake, it's a cake.
You know what a ring ding is?
You ever had a ring ding before?
You mean a ding dong?
No, there's a ring. You mean a ring pop?
Yeah. There's a ring ding, isn't there?
I don't know what a ring ding is. A ring ding? I know a ding dong. Look up a ring ding. Ring ding? I thought there mean a ring pop? There's a ring ding, isn't there? I don't know what a ring ding is.
A ring ding?
I know a ding dong.
Look up a ring ding.
Ring ding?
I thought there was a ring ding.
I don't know.
This is important that we get to the bottom of this.
I know as long as...
This is the kind of stuff we worry about here in America,
Margaret.
And this is what we...
Oh!
No, ring dings, that's it, right there.
So it's a knockoff ding dong?
Yeah.
Yeah, well, we knew of ring dings,
and I think that's what they had maybe in our area.
Well I didn't know about- Is a ding dong a,
what is it?
A ding dong is like a legit version of one of those.
I love ding dongs.
Yeah, me too.
It's a little cake.
Is it like a Twinkie?
Covered with chocolate, and then there's a cream filling.
Yeah, but it's the same thing as a Ringding.
I think in our area we had Ringdings.
Yeah, but you're in our area now.
So here it's a ding dong.
You're in the ding dong territory.
I think they're different companies.
Ding dong!
Hostess and then whatever.
Drake's.
Dog and pony shit.
No, no, Drake's cakes.
Please.
No one cares.
Look, we got to the, you know what's sad, Margaret?
Hostess is the dominant empire.
Margaret?
Yes.
The thing I love about this interview
is that we got to the crux of who Margaret is.
Which is, that ding-dongs are made by hostess
and ring-dings are made by Drake's cakes.
Correct.
That's all.
And I knew that that's what we were gonna talk about
at the minute.
I knew that you worked
I was hoping we'd go in that direction.
Doing natural music with children.
Well these kids sound kind of hearty,
like they get out there.
You know, sometimes these days parents are too,
not Sona, but a lot of parents are too worried about their,
no, a lot of parents these days are too worried
about their kids and rough play.
Sona not so much.
She often doesn't know where they are.
No idea.
That's true, I found them in the mall.
Remember when I found your kids
just wandering the parking lot of a mall?
Yeah, they were just in the parking lot.
Yeah, and you had given them each a knife
and told them go get dinner?
Yeah, they were going, mama, mama,
and I was like, figure it out.
Figure it out. Yeah.
And then you rented out their room.
Margaret.
Sona probably knows that nowadays
there's a huge amount of information around risky play
and how important it is for kids,
which makes
me laugh because I'm closer to Conan's era. Risky play was just go outside and don't come
back until dinner time. Yes. But nowadays it's contrived. So I happen to be in a great
spot with my year round music and nature program to encourage parents, you know, because everyone
with resilience is the other catchphrase that
parents are using right now. We want to teach resilience,
which I would say is, you know, a mother of a 19 and 20 year
old, that probably was too in their face. You know, I think
it's a good a good thing that we're hopefully going in the
other direction.
I was of the generation where you,
your parents never knew where you were,
you wandered around,
someone invited you to get into a van, you just did.
And if you were gone.
Yes, Jesus.
Now if you were gone for a couple of months.
You would have some ring dings and you went right in.
They'd give you a ring ding and you'd get all sleepy
and then you'd wake up in a different state.
Oh man.
But what I'm saying is that's the world I grew up in
and it was a better time. It in a different state. Oh man. We're having lag again. But what I'm saying is that's the world I grew up in and it was a better time.
It was a better world.
Someone's, what did you put in this ring ding?
I'm not taking that ring ding,
I'll take the untainted ding dong.
All right, we're recording.
This is the dumbest, by the way, Margaret,
it's not your fault, this is the dumbest conversation
we've ever had.
It's gone off the track more, it's completely not linear in any way. That's true, but still, ding don not your fault. This is the dumbest conversation we've ever had. It's gone off the track more.
It's completely not linear in any way.
That's true, but still, Ding Dongs are better.
So much so, her computer's like defying
to be a part of it.
Oh, I thought she was just staring at us,
trying to figure out, okay, I think we can keep this part.
Well, clearly we have more stuff we need to talk about
with Ring Ding and Ding Dongs
while she's getting back to us.
Margaret's Zoom froze.
While that's happening, we're gonna continue.
I don't see any reason why we should stop,
but it froze and it's probably something to do with,
look, I'm not saying it's because of the connection
in Calgary, it could be something's wrong
with the telecommunications here in Los Angeles.
I'm not gonna assume that it's one or the other.
I just do know that this is Eduardo's job
and he's not doing it.
Maybe they are in Furgier.
Yeah, who knows?
Well, the important thing is that we're together
and while she...
Pfft.
I have a ding dong story.
Hold on, I bet you do.
I wanna hear this.
No, what I'm saying is this gives us a chance
to talk about ring dings and ding dongs
while Margaret's not on.
Go, tell your ding dong story.
It's not a good story.
I like it.
My dad worked...
No!
Hold on, Margaret, just pause for a second. I wanna hear the ding dong story. It's not-dong story. I like it. My dad worked. No! Hold on Margaret, just pause for a second.
I wanna hear the ding-dong story.
It's not even a story.
It's a really quick thing my dad used to say.
He used to work in a catering warehouse for lunch trucks
and we'd always call him and be like,
can you bring us some ding-dongs and donuts?
And he'd always say,
I already have two ding-dongs at home.
Oh.
That's what I think of every time I think of ding-dongs.
That wouldn't work with ring rings or whatever.
No, ring dings.
Whatever, but the point is you can't even have fun with them.
I called my father once at his lab,
and I said, dad, can you bring some ring dings
by Drake's when you come home?
And he said, fuck you, I'm working.
Ha ha ha ha.
Isn't that a charming story too?
That's a charming story, it's just as charming as your story.
Oh my god, what a scam.
It's a different time.
Margaret, it's probably time.
This is the hardest I've seen Sona laugh in a long time.
Look, he just pushed the mic towards you.
He wants to get those laughs.
He runs on laughs.
I want those laughs. Oh my god. I hate. He runs on laughs. I want those laughs.
Oh my god.
I hate when she hides from a mic when she's laughing.
Those are golden.
Oh my god.
Hey, we're almost out of time.
Margaret, do you think you could play us out
with a little Conan's theme or some kind of?
Well, sure.
Well, I've got a Conan theme.
Yeah.
So yeah, I thought of something.
OK, here we go.
Oh, this is a different one.
It's not going to be super long, but can I talk you through it?
Sure.
Yes.
OK, so C major is your key. Yes. Your key, Conan. Yeah, this is a different one. It's not going to be super long, but can I talk you through it? Sure. Yes. OK.
So C major is your key.
Yes.
Your key.
Yeah, I think so.
You're a super straightforward guy, right?
Yep.
OK.
And very, again, the Carl Stalling sort of upbeat.
So the theme is.
["The Star-Spangled Banner"]
And if you remember, oh, we're the boys at the chorus.
Yeah. You like our show?
I'll play with that a bit and I'll do different harmonic foundation like...
Something like that.
But then when I start developing it, we got to get the zany, like the thing about you
that I find having listened to your podcast, and this is all, I can only write what I know
of you, right?
Which is the external Conan.
Yep.
Is you, you'll just come out from left field with these zany things, right?
So what I'd start doing is I'd take the super straightforward theme
and start adding these like dissonances, right? Right.
Those now make it into, I take the straightforward C major and I'm adding some flat sevens and flat thirds.
I love it. You know what I love is that what I'm getting from that is someone who's basically upbeat,
straightforward, well-intentioned, but very damaged and broken. What I'm getting from that is someone who's basically upbeat,
straightforward, well-intentioned, but very damaged and broken.
Like the little, I can feel like the little shards of glass.
Doesn't that sound like, little, yeah, little broken.
It should be played on like a honky tonk piano
that's detuned a little bit.
That's ironic, because it sounds like jazz,
and you despise jazz.
I don't despise jazz.
No, no, no, no.
I despise, there's some jazz I really love,
but there's some of it that I think is,
you guys are just, man, oh God.
The jazz aspect of it though.
He likes the ring dings of jazz.
Yeah, you like the ding dong.
The jazz aspect of it is to indicate,
it's the intellect,
cause Conan's got this intellect, right?
Yeah, Matt, what about my intellect?
Where?
And jazz is the intellectual music, right?
That's out there, it's a very intellectual.
That's what I like when I listen to music,
is some intellect being thrown at me.
You don't like the jazz?
Like a guy with a goatee and some bongos.
Take the jazz out.
No, I like some jazz.
All right, I'll take the jazz out.
I like some jazz, we shouldn't talk about it.
Eduardo takes it very personally,
cause he's got one of those big collections of jazz,
and he's always drinking his various liqueurs
and going out to late night clubs.
His beret.
Yeah, he's got a beret.
He's like, he just put weird honker notes in there.
No, I never had you be that, I know what you'd be.
What?
You know be that.
What?
I know be that?
You were never the guy in the beret.
You were never that hipster.
You were a different guy.
You were the guy that went to the Rose Bowl swap meet.
You bought an Asusaphone.
I'm just saying, they're overlapping Venn diagrams.
You had like a lot of irony going on.
There's less irony with Eduardo.
He just loves that bad music.
Anyway, Margaret, it has been very nice talking to you.
And I really liked the themes that you came up with me.
And you know what I'd like to do someday?
Meet up with you.
We'll take a walk in the woods and recreate my theme
using rocks, sticks, leaves.
That sounds amazing.
And then we'll go and find the children
that we weren't minding,
who are rapidly floating down the icy river.
Because you are all for risky play.
I'm all for risky play, yep. Well, that sounds, doesn't that sound a little naughty? Sounds risky. I'm all for risky play. I'm all for risky play, yep.
Well that sounds, doesn't that sound a little naughty?
Sounds risky.
I'm all for risky play.
I'm all for risky play.
I mean.
Yeah.
Yeah, Margaret.
Yeah, Margaret.
Yeah, Margaret, you Canadians,
you keep it close to the vest.
Yeah.
Oh my God, no comment.
It was lovely talking to you, Margaret.
And.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, I hope we meet someday in person.
You seem like a really cool, nice person.
Thank you.
Well, this was a real honor and I think, you know,
I've lived now, I've lived.
Oh, wow.
Well, I think you were living before
and if anything, we diminished a bit, but thank you.
You take care, Margaret.
Oh, no, it's fantastic.
Thank you guys.
Bye-bye. Bye.
Bye. Bye.
Conan O'Brien needs a friend. You take care Margaret. Oh no, it's fantastic. Thank you guys. Bye bye. Bye. Bye.
Bye.
Conan O'Brien needs a friend.
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Produced by me, Matt Gourley.
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