My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 418 - Assume It's A Masterpiece
Episode Date: March 7, 2024On today’s episode, Karen and Georgia cover the murder of Vanessa Guillén and the 1911 theft of the Mona Lisa. For our sources and show notes, visit www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Learn more ab...out your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcript
Discussion (0)
This is Exactly Right. and crafted with skin conditioning oils. So whether you're going for a run or just running late,
do what life throws your way and smell like you didn't.
Find Secret at your nearest Walmart or Shoppers Drug Mart today.
I'm Kate Winkler-Dawson, a journalist, author, and podcast host.
And I'm Paul Holes, a retired investigator with Experience Solving
some of America's most notorious cold cases. author and podcast host. And I'm Paul Holes, a retired investigator with Experience Solving
Some of America's Most Notorious Cold Cases. Together, we host Buried Bones, a historical
true crime podcast on the Exactly Right Network. Each week, we examine a different case from history
and use our years of experience and 21st century forensics to bring new insights into these very
old tragedies. Like the time the Sausage King of Chicago's wife went missing in 1897.
Don't miss new episodes every Wednesday.
Follow Buried Bones wherever you get your podcasts. My savior.
Hello.
And welcome.
It's my favorite murder.
That's George Hardsdark.
That is Karen Kilgariff.
We are going to do podcasting now.
Here it is.
Ready? It's talking. Do you have do podcasting now. Here it is. Ready?
It's talking.
Do you have your podcasting tea?
I've got my podcasting matcha, functional matcha going.
I've got my PG tips.
Awesome.
Milk and sugar?
Yep.
Milk and honey.
Old school Pepsi can.
Old school, well, because it's caffeine free.
Oh. And diet. I didn't know you were a Pepsi human. I thought. Well, because it's caffeine free. Oh, and diet.
I didn't know you were a Pepsi human.
I thought you were Diet Coke human and a water.
I like to I like to have three beverages and I also
the truth is Diet Coke is what everyone always has.
But Diet Pepsi is my preference because I'm from the country.
I really don't like Pepsi products.
Are you going to have a fight right now?
We could.
I think people would love something like that.
Right.
Controversy.
We just disagreed over Pepsi.
Hold on a minute.
Let's get into the energy of Coke versus Pepsi.
Wait, you like Pepsi?
Yeah, and I have for a while.
See, I'm a Coke girl and I feel like coke girls are like, you know
I don't know. What are we on a different plane?
Let's not I thought you were bailing. No, I was trying to be a pick-me-girl over coke
But I just couldn't think of anything. I mean, I just think that people keep Diet Coke around
More because they know that the people who care
are the ones that like Diet Coke.
Actresses.
Yeah.
If you have an actress come over,
let's just say an actress stops by your house,
the car breaks down in front of your house.
You're gonna wanna have Diet Coke on hand.
I swear to you.
And also sniffable Coke.
And also Coke cane Coke.
If you wanna be a good post or a hostess,
however you identify hosting wise.
Oh, do you have?
I have a follow up.
No, why don't I ask you what you have
and then immediately tell you what I have.
That's not good podcasting.
Wait, you must be excited.
Tell me what you have.
I just have a follow up from my story from last week,
the Crouch Family Murders at Farm 1800 Farmhouse Murder.
That's someone named Emily Rodin.
Can I read this to you real quick?
And listen, this is a great sample of our hometown episodes.
This is the kind of content you can expect.
And you should also write in to my favorite murder, a Gmail.
That's right.
With your content.
And it could be about anything.
If you see on your feed that it says,
mini-soad, and you're the kind of person that goes,
I've never listened to one of those,
therefore that's not for me.
Hey, I relate.
I'm also Gen X.
You agree.
You will like it.
It's other people's stories.
Yeah, that's all your friends.
Why are we plugging our own podcast on the podcast?
I don't know.
They're doing enough.
They're doing enough heavy lifting,
just listening to this shit.
And now we're fucking demanding.
This starts, hi friends, Georgia did the Crouch Family
murders in episode 417, which took place in Jackson, Michigan.
I have lived in Jackson most of my life,
and this is one of my favorite stories to tell
when we passed by the graveyard on our way out
to the family farm.
The rumor on Jackson is that escaped prisoners jumped
off a train and broke into the house, killing the family.
Remember it was like, is it the sun?
Yeah.
Jackson is home to the big prison in Michigan,
hosting some of the worst of the worst.
We also have the oldest working train station in America.
It is said that there was a horrible storm that night,
which the rest, and that some prisoners used it
to escape the prison.
The railroad tracks that run behind the prison
also run behind the land that the Crouch family owned.
Since they escaped, it's rumored that they saw the house and went in for clothes, food, supplies, etc.
Before hopping onto another train and then disappeared.
Whoa.
Because of the storm, the gunshots were hard to hear or possibly mistaken for thunder from the storm,
which is why no one really noticed.
And it goes on to talk about the suspected hauntings at the graveyard and stuff like that.
Yeah, from Emily. Emily gave us a working theory. At least that's something to clasp onto. And then it makes me think, remember, I've recommended this book literally seven times on this podcast, but
it's because I'm so obsessed. It's a book called The Man From The Train and that follows right
along. That's what that guy would do.
Yeah, in and out, and never to be fucking seen again.
Right, except for your, he's not yours, the murderer that Emily is talking about used a gun.
Oh, right. But you gotta imagine back then, there's so many, you know, hobos going town to town.
True.
You escape prison, or even if you get, I mean, yeah, it's just
probably happened a lot. It's like truck driver serial killers now.
It's probably much more prevalent because
The anonymity and
They're everywhere, exactly.
Yes, they get to slip right back in and then drive away.
No shame on truck drivers.
Y'all are doing great work out there
when you're not killing people.
Except for a handful. There are a handful.
They are a handful, those truck drivers.
I've been to your truck stops along the five, I know.
What you got?
The thing I was excited about,
that I was saying at the same time as you,
is there is a new series on Hulu called Show Gun.
Yeah, we started it, yes.
Did you? It's so fucking good.
And I was so excited.
And I thought I was excited about
when this series was premiering because
there's a billboard near my house.
Which sometimes I'll do.
I'll be like, well, if that's my home billboard,
I'll support you. Oh, that's sweet.
I feel sad. The billboards around
like that part of the valley,
there's a lot of billboards that go up
and I know people get really excited
and they go right back down
and no one ever sees what's on them.
They're quick.
Yeah, but so this one I was excited for
and I was like, I love a sweeping historical drama, et cetera.
But then my sister, I'm talking to my sister
and she goes, I go, I don't know why I'm so excited
but I really am.
And she goes, I know why you're so excited
because Shogun was that book mom and dad read in the 70s.
And that's what all their friends talked about.
And like, Showgun, I don't even remember it,
but Laura remembers where that was like
the book club book of the month or whatever.
Like Clan of the Cave Bear.
That's the one I fucking, that has her printed on me.
And you've got Showgun, I love it. It's kind of like, it seems like a Lord of the Cave Bear. That's the one I fucking, that has imprinted on me. And you've got Shogun.
I love it.
It's kind of like, it seems like a Lord of the Rings,
like a Japanese Lord of the Rings kind of a thing.
But it's actually real.
So it's like, it's Japanese, like warring feudal, yeah.
Yeah, but that idea of like, yeah,
like clans and kingdoms and...
Everybody fighting and who's gonna do what,
but it's really fascinating.
It's also about colonialism and like how things like that
were working back then where these countries are like,
you showed up from where and you think you're gonna do what?
Like, it's amazing.
Okay, I'll keep watching.
And also, can I just tell you that there's a woman named Anna Sawai,
who plays Lady Mariko, who's amazing, really good.
Hiroyuki Sanada, he plays the main lord, great, fun to watch.
But the lead guy that's like the British guy that shows up there,
his name is Cosmo Jarvis.
Yeah, that's the best name.
And I kind of want to watch him for the rest of his life.
I'm like, oh my, who's this guy?
He's there fighting everybody and almost dying.
It's great.
You love those Brits.
Yes, and then really quick,
upcoming the great Nestor Carbinell is going to,
I just saw down here that he's in the cast
where I'm like, where the hell is he?
Cause he's been in so many things that you love
and you've seen him for a long time, for example.
You're so good with names.
I know.
He was originally on Suddenly Susan,
but then he was on Lost.
Oh yeah.
Really beautiful Latino man.
Oh.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know that guy.
He's in it too.
So I was like, I read all those names off my phone,
by the way.
Just exciting.
I love an exciting series to get into and wait for.
Yeah, and to be in it.
Yeah.
I have another podcast to recommend.
I've been binging it and it's a sober,
it's a sobriety podcast.
And in my ever evolving relationship with alcohol, I found that
information, knowledge about what alcohol does to your mind and body, as well as someone who's
also been through that, you know, who can empathize and has their own personal experience,
those two things have really helped me attach to a theory of a mindset. So this podcast I
randomly found called Sober Powered, it's hosted by a
gal named Jill, she's a scientist, she's a chemist, she's a sober person, and it's like 15 minute
little snippets of like what alcohol does to your body and how to go to your first sober party. And
you know, just like in between all of those things, then she also imparts her own personal
experience, which is so helpful.
It's been really incredible.
So check that out, sober powered.
Little just like quick episodes, you're in, you're out.
That's so good to be able to listen to something
and kind of have a go to something that you put on
and you're like, oh, this is gonna give me a little jolt.
Yeah.
This is gonna give me a little new perspective
that I want but haven't been able to find before.
Right.
Little boosts.
I love that.
Boost.
Yeah.
Should we do exactly right corner?
I think we should.
OK.
Hey, guys, we have a podcast network.
I feel like this makes it sound like we pre-recorded this
when I give this shfield.
This is an ongoing conversation.
This is real.
But let's do our fakes voices
as we read this right now.
Super professional.
Hey guys.
Hey guys.
Yeah, we have a podcast network.
It's called Exactly Right.
Here are some highlights.
On this week's episode of 10th Volk More Wicked Season 10,
Kate Winkler-Dawson takes us to Colonial Williamsburg,
Karen's favorite location,
where we meet two men, one is holding a sword
and the other is dead.
And you gotta listen now to find out
if it was murder or self-defense.
And then on That's Messed Up in SVU podcast,
Karen and Lisa discussed an episode of SVU from 2013
called Internal Affairs,
and they have a chat with actor Mark Menchalka,
who guest starred as an NYPD officer.
Also the newest MFM animated masterpiece is here.
It's called The Zipper from episode 381,
and features Karen...
With me.
...and a cursed carnival ride.
And a possible future astronaut.
It is freaking hilarious.
Go to youtube.com.
Exactly right to watch every single one
of Nick Terry's hilarious animations.
Oh, and we really want to thank you for helping us spread the word
about another exciting podcast coming out here on Exactly Right.
Last week, we announced it, The Butterfly King,
and it premieres on March 21st.
The trailer's already on the true crime charts.
That's because of you guys. Thank you so much for that support.
It's co-produced with our partners from Blanchard House.
They're British. We're really trying to impress them.
Please help us make the British House. They're British. We're really trying to impress them.
Please help us make the British people think we're cool.
And please, if you are on Instagram,
give us a follow at my favorite murder
because we have some really fun new videos
that our team is creating based on each episode.
Look at us on social media, please.
Look at us and look at Caprice,
our new social media content creator.
She's so good at it.
She's so good at it.
I know.
It's great.
Please follow.
Very fun.
If your sock drawer looks more like a junk drawer, it's time to free yourself from the
chaos.
Out with those old mismatched socks and in with some new bombas.
Once you try them, you'll understand.
Bombas have their signature honeycomb arch support that feels like a hug and cushion
foot pads for extra comfort.
Bombas carries classic sock designs and playful options like their Garden Party collection
featuring florals and stripes or colorful quarter socks with a frilly cuff.
And for any listeners with poor circulation and chronically cold feet, try Bomba's Moisture
Wicking Marino Wool Blend socks that help regulate temperature.
Every time you buy a pair of Bomba socks,
you donate essential items to those who need them.
The same goes for Bomba's other clothing,
like tees and underwear.
One item purchased equals one donated.
I honestly wasn't aware how important good socks were
until Bomba's.
I had so many old socks that I didn't care about.
I didn't think about them.
They didn't match, whatever, whatever.
And then I tried some socks from Bombas
and was like, oh, these can actually like
make your life a little more comfortable.
I didn't realize, you know?
They fit good, they feel good.
It's a good sock.
It is.
So get comfy this spring and give back with Bombas.
Head to bombas.com slash MFM and use code MFM
for 20% off your first purchase.
That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash MFM
and use code MFM at checkout.
Goodbye.
Hey, Georgia.
Do you ever find yourself having a big reaction
to a small situation?
No.
That can actually feel confusing and embarrassing.
But when you step back, you may realize
you were processing emotions related
to something completely different.
Yeah.
Therapy gives you the tools to avoid these situations
and helps you to process your emotions in real time.
Find a therapist that's right for you on Talkspace.
New members typically find a personalized match
in just 48 hours.
Talkspace is the number one online therapy platform with licensed professionals and over 40 specialties,
including anxiety, depression, substance abuse, relationship issues, and more.
You know, that idea of like having a big reaction to a small situation.
In certain points in life, the small situations are the biggest situations because it's your trigger.
It's the thing that is affecting you the most.
And when you have a professional come in and say,
yes, I hear what you're saying
and I see what you're seeing
and now let's step through it this way.
There's no better feeling in the world.
Somebody that is validating the problems that you're having
and saying, this is understandable,
now let's work through it and let's fix it.
I love that.
And as a listener of this podcast,
you'll get $80 off your first month with Talkspace
when you go to talkspace.com slash MFM.
To match with the licensed therapist today,
go to talkspace.com slash MFM
and get $80 off your first month.
That's talkspace.com slash MFM.
Goodbye.
Okay, I'm first this week.
Yeah.
Are you ready to do this?
Always.
Ah, thank God.
Okay.
This one, I didn't really know anything about
before I started reading this research.
This is one of the most infuriating stories
and one of the most upsetting stories.
Oh, no. But ultimately, there the most upsetting stories. Oh no.
But ultimately, there is a silver lining.
Thank God.
Okay.
I'm gonna tell you today about the tragic murder
of young female soldier and the international outrage
that followed her death.
This case raised very serious discussion
about the discrimination, harassment and violence
suffered by women, especially women of color
in the US military.
This is the story of the murder of Vanessa Guillen,
her life and legacy, as well as her family's fight
for justice, for Vanessa, and for every enlisted person.
Wow, this is recent, this is during the lockdown, right?
That's right, yes.
Shit, I remember reading this.
Yeah, so the sources that were used on the story today are,
there's a Netflix documentary called I Am Vanessa Guillen,
and a 2020 Houston Chronicle article entitled Portrait
of a Fallen Soldier by Gabrielle Banks, Olivia P. Tallott,
and Hannah Dellinger.
And the rest of the sources are in our show notes.
So in this story that I'm about to tell you,
I refer to the Army base that this takes place on as Fort Hood
because that's what it was called at the time.
But it has been renamed to Fort Kavazos
after General Richard Edward Kavazos.
And, you know, sometimes those changes happen
and then you're like, I was like, well,
I don't want to talk about the Confederate, you know,
general loser that it was named after in the first place, which how did that happen?
But I did look up a little information on General Richard Cavazos and I'll just tell
you real quick, here's why he got picked.
He is a Texas native and the Army's first four star general of Hispanic descent.
He was Mexican-American.
He not only served in Korea,
but then he went back and served in Vietnam.
Wow.
And during the course of battle,
and I believe this was in a battle in Korea,
his group was attacked by a way bigger,
like advancing group of enemies.
And after the battle was done,
he went and found five of his fellow soldiers
who were all wounded,
and he carried them one by one to safety.
And so for that, he earned the Distinguished Service Cross.
So I think people should know what the name has changed to
before they start bitching about woke this or blah, blah, blah, that, because I would say this guy is who anything should be named after, but obviously
and especially a Texan army base.
Okay.
So the story begins in Houston, Texas in 1999.
Vanessa is the second of six children, four daughters and two sons, born to Rogelio and
Gloria Guillen.
Rogelio and Gloria are first generation immigrants from Mexico.
Rogelio supports the family as a machine operator while Gloria raises the six
children, full-time job and then some.
So from Vanessa's very first moments of life, she proves herself to be a
fighter, according to a profile in the Houston
Chronicle, after she was born, she spent nearly a month in the NICU being treated for breathing
issues. But she made a full recovery. She grows into a gifted student and a talented athlete.
Her teachers remember Vanessa as an excellent writer and her track and soccer coaches remember
all the time she'd show up early for practice
to quote do a little extra training. So even though she's exceptional in many ways, Vanessa
is also a typical teenage girl. She talks with her friends about boys, she gets in her head about
her body and the way it looks. And despite being described as a very composed and strong young woman, she does cry at least one time over a bad haircut.
That's about as typical teenage girl as you can get,
I would say.
The tears I shed over my Demi Moore ghost haircut.
Why?
Why in the world would I made that choice for myself?
One thing that does feel unique about Vanessa
is that she figures out her life's calling
at a very young age.
In the documentary, I Am Vanessa Guillen, her mother Gloria says, quote, when she was
10, she told me, Mom, when I grow up, I want to join the army.
I thought it was a child thing and she would forget.
And then when she was turning 18, she told me in the bedroom, Mom, remember when I said
I'd either join the army or become an astronaut and go to the moon?
I said, you better go to the moon.
But she said, I already enlisted.
Oh, yeah. Wow.
So in 2018, just two days after Vanessa graduates from high school,
she arrives in South Carolina for basic training like she went immediately.
Yeah.
Once she completes basic training,
she shipped out to Virginia for
more concentrated training in firearms repair. And then she's assigned to Fort
Hood back in her native Texas, where she'll be working with the Regimental
Engineer Squadron as a weapons mechanic. The base is about three hours away from
her family in Houston. When she arrives at Fort Hood on December 19th, 2018,
Vanessa discovers it's a massive army base.
It's one of the largest in the United States.
And it actually feels like its own mini city.
There's parks, there's grocery stores, restaurants,
there's even a shopping mall.
Shit, I didn't know that was a thing.
I know, I didn't either.
But Fort Hood has a somewhat notorious reputation.
There have been two deadly mass shootings at Fort Hood.
What?
And it grabbed headlines for both drug
and gun trafficking ring busts.
Oh my God.
So yeah, I mean, it's basically like a city
with all the problems and a shopping mall.
There's also a long history of sexual violence
and misconduct at Fort Hood,
including an unbelievable case
of a sergeant named Gregory McQueen,
who was convicted in 2015,
of lowering down on their luck female soldiers
into a sex trafficking operation.
Oh, my God.
The Houston Chronicle reports that McQueen was once,
ironically and horrifically, quote,
Houston Chronicle reports that McQueen was once ironically and horrifically, quote, tasked with coordinating his Fort Hood Battalion's sexual assault prevention program.
Jesus fucking Christ.
Yeah.
Of course, the issue of sexual harassment in the military is not confined to Fort Hood.
The Houston Chronicle reports that, quote, in 2019, military services received 7,825 formal reports of sexual assault, but
a survey found that an estimated 20,500 active duty service members experienced sexual assault
in 2018, according to that same report, end quote.
And it's been stated by high-ranking government officials that
even among those statistics, Fort Hood has the highest number of sexual assault cases.
So up until this point, Vanessa has excelled at boot camp. She genuinely enjoyed her training
in Virginia. But according to her family, who see her just about every weekend when
she's off duty, Vanessa
does not like Fort Hood and she's vocal about it.
The Houston Chronicle says that Vanessa, quote, complained that it was dirty, the food was
bad and the officers were mean, end quote.
And that's a person who wanted to go into the army and who's been through basic training
where they are the meanest that they will ever be to you, I would imagine, and it's really saying something.
So in the fall of 2019,
Vanessa temporarily leaves Fort Hood
for routine combat training in the Mojave Desert.
According to her mother, Gloria,
when she returns to Texas, she's a different person.
Gloria remembers asking Vanessa what's wrong
and she replies, quote, I'm tired, mommy, I just want to get out of the army." End quote.
Then in February of 2020, Vanessa tells her mom that she's being sexually harassed by a sergeant.
But despite Gloria's pleas, Vanessa will not tell her the man's name.
When Gloria asks if Vanessa's reported this harassment, Vanessa tells her, quote,
No, they laugh at us there.
They laugh at everyone.
They don't believe us.
We are nobody, end quote.
So now we fast forward to April of 2020.
COVID-19 is raging,
but because Vanessa is considered an essential worker,
she's still regularly completing her shifts at Fort Hood.
And then on April 22nd,
she technically has a day off,
but she gets a last minute text message asking her to come in to work on something.
She figures she'll be able to knock this job out quickly, so she heads to work wearing her
civilian clothes. In her mind, it's like maybe she was thinking she was just going to be there for
15 minutes and then go, go to her day off.
The first inkling that something was wrong comes within hours around midday.
Vanessa has recently gotten engaged
to a man in Houston named Juan Cruz,
and Juan and Vanessa talk every single day at lunchtime
as a way of kind of like coping
with being in this long distance relationship.
But on April 22nd, when Juan calls Vanessa,
she doesn't pick up.
He calls again, there's no answer,
and she isn't responding to his texts.
In fact, the texts he's sending
aren't even being labeled as delivered,
which strikes Juan as very strange,
like Vanessa's phone is either off or it's out of service. So he just keeps trying to get in touch with her,
but as the day goes by, his confusion turns into panic.
Juan calls Vanessa's sister, Myra, who also can't reach her sister.
They notice that Vanessa hasn't been posting on any of her social media accounts,
so around 9 p.m., Myra calls Fort Hood directly
and asks if anyone has seen her sister.
But no one is able to give Myra any information
on where Vanessa might be other than that she was last seen
at the base around midday.
So that night Myra and Juan get into the car
and make the three hour drive from Houston to Fort Hood.
They arrive around 3 a.m.
but they're not allowed to enter the base until
the next morning. So they have to get a hotel. They get up right away and around 9 a.m. Myra
and Juan are finally allowed to meet with military police. But instead of this bringing
any answers or any comfort, it just causes more concern. Myra says, quote, my interaction
with the military police was a joke.
The first sergeant told me,
oh, do you want to go to her room
and see if anything's missing?
And I thought about it,
and I was just like,
if it were to be part, God forbid,
of an investigation,
he shouldn't be letting me in there.
Sure.
I love that she knows that.
I love that she knows that.
Of course.
And I'm furious that he either doesn't know that
or doesn't care.
It's such a leftover like early 70s true crime story thing
of like, oh, I'll just do what's convenient in this moment
as opposed to what's good for this investigation.
This is probably whatever I think it is
because I'm jumping to conclusions.
So I don't really care how it's treated.
Right. So Myra and really care how it's treated. Right.
So Myra and Juan learn a few concerning facts,
like that Vanessa's car is still parked at the base
and that she's left behind a few personal effects
like her dorm keys and her ID card in an armory room.
And yet her phone is nowhere to be found.
When Myra asks the officer where her sister's keys
and ID card are, she's surprised to learn
that the officer is casually holding onto both
in his pocket.
Okay.
So Myra says, quote, I was just so confused.
This all should have been turned in.
If this is the police that I'm supposed to trust
to look for my sister, game over, end quote.." What a horrible stomach drop moment that must have been.
Yeah, like there's nothing you can do.
Like what do you do next?
Right.
So when it becomes clear that Myron and Juan aren't getting anywhere with the military
police, they head back to Houston.
Luckily, Myron and her family know that time is of the essence in a missing person's case.
So her friends and family begin posting her picture
and her information all over social media,
encouraging others to repost and share.
They get no help from the Fort Hood investigators
who don't seem to be taking any immediate action
to get any information out to the public.
So the Geans decide they're gonna have to do it
for themselves. One would later say, quote, I was going to the gas stations, to stores, to the bus
stops, posting missing signs for the love of my life. It's a nightmare. Every minute that passes
was killing me inside slowly, end quote. Oh my God, I can't imagine. So a week goes by with no sign of Vanessa.
And at this point, the US Army Criminal Investigation
Division, or they're called CID, has been looped in.
They handle investigations within the military,
and they operate on their own system
versus funneling it through the civilian justice system.
At this point, the Geans get the sense
that they're being shut out of whatever this
military investigation might be. They are not being given any updates. They basically feel
like they're being ignored. For example, when Gloria reportedly tells the military police that
her daughter admitted to her that she was being sexually harassed by a superior on base, and
she knew that was a very important detail.
And she knew that if anyone could look into that exact detail, it would be these
military investigators.
It should be, right?
They should have run to that person.
Right.
But according to the Geans, that information is just shrugged off.
So, of course, Vanessa's family, their fury is growing in tandem with their anxiety. And like when I read that line,
I was like, yeah, so is mine.
Like what in the fuck,
if you have a missing person's case
where you're not sure about anything,
but you're being given these clues,
why are you not a, doing something about it
and be telling the family what's happening?
Totally, totally.
Vanessa's sister Lupepe says, quote,
because of the frustration of not having answers,
we decided if no one wants to talk to us,
we're going to talk to them.
We started protesting the first week of May
out in front of Fort Hood.
Nice.
So Vanessa's friends and family,
left with no other options, show up at the Army base
with posters and with chance,
ready to put pressure on
the military investigators to do a better job looking for Vanessa.
Around this time, Myra also reaches out to a lawyer named Natalie Kowam, who has extensive
experience working with the military, and Natalie agrees to take the family's case
pro bono.
She says, quote, of course, our most important thing was to find Vanessa.
I saw that the military did not give a damn. They're going to railroad this family. And that's
when I said we need to do our own investigation. And quote, and even if like the intention is not
to railroad the family, even if there was an investigator with a heart of gold, basic actions
were not being taken and the family's being treated like
it's no big deal when someone is gone. Yeah. That someone is their employee and their service
member. Yeah, for sure.
So the Geans reach out to as many people as they can think of for help, including a nonprofit
called Texas ECU Search, which is a volunteer-based organization that helps
with search and recovery efforts for missing people.
At that time, the Geans keep the public informed about the case by constantly posting on social
media on all platforms.
They also have dedicated pages tracking Vanessa's case in real time.
So then Myra gets an idea.
Because of the total lack of transparency
in the official CID investigation,
she's like, we should take the opposite approach.
So Myra says, quote,
my mom thought it was very important
to point out Vanessa's sexual harassment,
but basically the military investigators ignored it.
I asked myself one night when I couldn't sleep,
should I post this or not?
I mean, it is the military, what if I get in trouble?
But I decided to post it."
And quote, so my republish is several posts
that mention her sister's sexual harassment claims.
And not long after her sister Lupe tells her,
a hashtag has popped up online
where members of the military are sharing harrowing stories
of being harassed, abused,
and assaulted while enlisted.
And that hashtag is hashtag I am Vanessa Guillen.
Wow.
So this hashtag goes viral
and it quickly transforms into an online community.
This is a quote from the Houston Chronicle,
quote, within two weeks of its formation,
a private Facebook group
called I Am Vanessa Guillen attracted 12,000 female military members who posted about abuse
they had suffered and quote.
Incredible.
Right.
Then what started as a hashtag becomes a movement.
Demonstrations are held in places like Washington, DC and Los Angeles.
Posters with Vanessa's face on them
are spotted as far away as Egypt.
Chills.
Right?
And in her native Houston, this one gets me.
20 murals, one for each year of Vanessa's life,
are painted throughout the city in her honor
by local artists.
But even as this wave of public support rises,
the Giants still have no idea what's happening
in the investigation.
Yeah, wow.
In early June, so this happened at the end of April.
In early June, officials at Fort Hood
finally hold a press conference,
and in it they acknowledge Vanessa's disappearance
and they state their belief that foul play
is in fact involved.
For the family, it's at best underwhelming.
Vanessa's fiance, Juan says, quote, I was like, it's about time they said it.
We've been told nothing.
Yeah.
Nothing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So they actually were told one thing.
One of the detectives takes the opportunity to deny full stop that Vanessa
was the victim of sexual harassment
He actually says quote we've interviewed hundreds of people to include all acquaintances and co-workers of Miss Gean
There's no allegation whatsoever that she's been sexually assaulted or harassed and any hint of information
That was sexual harassment was completely looked at without any credible information."
End quote.
Yeah, because you can't talk to her
because she's fucking missing.
But also you have people in a very strict
and regimented system of a pecking order based system.
The people at the bottom are the ones
who are probably most likely going to be harassed or assaulted.
And they have the most to lose.
They have the most to lose and there's no internal system set up to do anything if it
happens anyway.
And here's a great example of that is you saying that didn't happen.
You saying definitively that that didn't happen.
Who exactly are you trying to clear in saying that?
That's an interesting thing to ask yourself as the speaker.
Why would that be a thing that's so important when you have no answers?
Yeah.
The point is that she's missing, not that you need to clear yourself.
Not that a thing that is unreported because of the dangerous aspect of it.
It's just such an ignorant,
like you know what, I talk to the boys, we say no.
Right.
Okay.
So of course after this,
Vanessa's loved ones are furious.
They made a statement during the press conference
announcing that she's missing
and that foul play is suspected.
And then they accuse, tacitly accuse Vanessa
of lying about her sexual harassment experiences.
So after this press conference,
Vanessa's mom, Gloria, gives an impassioned speech
to the public where she says, quote,
"'Why until now are they making this show
"'of searching for my daughter?
"'Why now?
"'I demand justice and respect for me and my daughter,
"'a soldier that enlists in the military
"'to serve her country and all of us.
Because God forbid she is found dead, I will shut down this base.
Love you.
The only reason I just made that sound of laughing is because I'm trying not to cry.
That's a me, like the chutzpah.
Oh my God. We need more moms giving speeches into public address systems with this energy when that
bullshit takes place.
Totally.
Okay. So here's the behind the scenes information that the Army CID was compiling this entire time.
There is a suspect in Vanessa's missing person's case
and his name is Aaron Robinson.
What we know about Aaron is that
he's a 20 year old armorer at Fort Hood.
He is not in Vanessa's chain of command.
So he isn't the predatory sergeant
that she told her mother about.
But we also know that Aaron and Vanessa crossed paths
on April 22nd, the day she went missing.
Investigators learned from Vanessa's phone markers
and text messages that she agreed to help Erin
confirm the serial numbers on some weapons that morning.
This doesn't seem to be the reason
that she went into work that day.
Erin asked her for help once she was on site,
and Erin is the last person known to have interacted
with Vanessa before she disappeared.
So, Army investigators speak with Erin multiple times
after Vanessa vanishes.
He tells them that on the night of April 22nd,
he worked a full day, and then he went home
and spent the rest of the night
with his 22-year-old girlfriend, Sicily Aguilar.
Erin claims to have left his house just once that evening to sign onto a work computer
for some sort of training of some kind, but this story quickly falls apart when on May
18th, investigators speak to two different witnesses.
On the day Vanessa went missing, both of these witnesses saw Aaron quote, pulling a large tough box with wheels
that appeared very heavy in weight
out of the arms room where he worked, end quote.
Aaron seen putting this box into his car and speeding away.
So investigators search Aaron's cell phone
and they see that Aaron's made several calls
to Cecily on April 22nd,
making them wonder what the couple was discussing at that time on the day of Vanessa's disappearance.
And then on June 30th, a few weeks after that CID press conference, contractors working
on a fencing project stumble upon human remains.
They're found near the Leon River, which is about 30 miles away from Fort Hood.
And when they check Erin's phone records,
they place him in this exact spot
on the night she disappeared.
So the same day the remains are discovered,
the Army police confront Cecily.
She admits that Erin actually did confess
to murdering Vanessa in the arms room
with a hammer before moving her body off base
in that heavy box.
How do you get that confession
and then keep moving on with your life?
I guess if he was abusive and she was scared of him,
then that would make sense.
I don't know.
I don't know that that's it.
But well, here, you'll hear about it.
Aaron then took Vanessa's body out to the Leon Riverside and asked Cecily to help him
dismember and dispose of her body, and she agreed to help him.
Yeah.
Incredibly, despite Cecily's confession and the strong circumstantial evidence against
Aaron, the military police do not arrest him.
What?
In fact, as journalist Heather Osborn says, quote, the day that Finesse's remains were
discovered, Aaron Robinson was actually being held for breaking COVID protocols.
Army investigators failed to let the soldier who was in charge of looking over Robinson know that he was also suspected of killing Guillain.
Basically, he just had like a chaperone with him.
He was being held, but it wasn't like a jail situation.
They didn't take his phone away from him.
And because he had been following news updates
on Vanessa's case, Aaron watches in real time
as they announce
that they are in fact, Vanessa's remains
that were discovered and they've now been identified.
Oh my God.
Aaron realizes that the walls are closing in on him.
So on July 1st, 2020, the day after Vanessa's remains
are found and identified,
Aaron manages to get away from his army chaperone, obtains a gun,
gets into a car, drives several miles off base
and kills himself.
To this day, it's unclear what Aaron's motive actually was,
but his girlfriend, Cecily, eventually offers one.
She claims that Vanessa became aware of Aaron
and Cecily's relationship after seeing Cecily's picture
on Aaron's cell phone's lock screen.
It turns out Cecily was married to a different Fort Hood soldier at the time, and she claims
that Aaron was afraid that Vanessa would report him for, quote, violating the army's
fraternization rules, which would have likely led to some sort of disciplinary action against
him.
But many people, including Vanessa's family,
do not buy that story.
As Myra has said, quote, my sister
was a very responsible person that would not
meddle into Robinson and Aguilar's alleged relationship.
End quote.
The family continues to suspect that predatory sexual behavior in this case not from a sergeant
But from Aaron Robinson played a role in Vanessa's death. Yeah, but that's the family's theory
So that's theory, but it does not make sense if you are so scared of that secret coming out
Why would you put her on your lock screen when she's the wife of a co-worker? Totally.
Nonsensical.
Yeah.
Eventually, an army investigation will conclude that Vanessa had been sexually harassed by 13
different army colleagues, disproving the statement made by the detective at the press
conference who defiantly said that all claims of sexual harassment had been, quote,
completely looked at
without any credible information, end quote.
I mean, the shaking of my head just won't stop.
I mean, it's this kind of thing
that is we talk about so much,
we have talked about for eight years
that women know, that women talk about,
but it's like, how long does this bullshit continue?
Yeah, it's pervasive.
It's in every fucking aspect of our society.
And it's something that we have to deal with
since we were children and every day.
And you're gonna go and talk about how it's disproven.
There is no sexual harassment.
Yeah, just doesn't, you know what?
None of the boys here are like that.
So, hey, stop trying to threaten their future
and their livelihoods.
It's that shit.
And it is bros before hoes energy, brain capacity.
Instead of like, hey, how about we don't have predators?
How about we don't cover for predators?
How about we don't act like predators?
How about that?
Pretty basic shit.
Right.
Get your shit together.
Go to fucking therapy.
Live a fucking day in our lives
and see what it's like for every single fucking woman out there.
But also just like, how about the culpability of men
pulling that into the conversation
as opposed to immediately being like,
actually she was lying at the press
conference talking about that she's missing. It's like if you're not one of those assholes
then fucking speak up. Yeah. And be a fucking ally. And be assholes to the dudes around you
that are those assholes. Yeah. Yes. Speak up when you see fucking something. There's like
eight dudes that are like, we're trying. I know.
Like weeping openly.
Oh my God.
So frustrating.
Yeah.
At the same time, army investigators
continue to deny that Aaron Robinson was one of Vanessa's
harassers.
So there's just no way he was one of the third, one more.
No.
He murdered her, definitely.
He definitely murdered her violently
and dismembered her body and disposed of it. But no. No. No. That couldn't have been it. Sorry, definitely. He definitely murdered her violently and dismembered her body and disposed of it.
But no, no.
That couldn't have been it.
Sorry, no.
But that's one step too far.
Very strange kind of thinking, very illogical thinking.
Absolutely.
Very victim-blamey thinking.
So in August of 2023,
Cecily Aguilar is sentenced
to 30 years in prison for her role in Vanessa's murder.
So now that's three young lives lost, just for what?
So Vanessa's sister Lupe said, quote,
I just have to acknowledge that I may never know
the answer of what happened to my sister."
End quote.
As painful as that is,
Lupe also sees how Vanessa's story
has quite literally changed the world.
Lupe says, quote, seeing people coming from all over
made us have that piece of hope.
It kept growing and growing.
From Houston, Austin, San Antonio, to California,
there are so many murals in Mexico
where my parents were born."
And quote,
it's because of the resilience, the hard work,
and the fearless advocacy of the Guy and family
that Vanessa's legacy is now so enormous.
She's a symbol for an entire movement
that aims to support victims of sexual violence
in our military ranks and ultimately stamp out such violence altogether.
Her fiancee, Juan, has added that, quote, I see her murals and I say to myself, damn,
this is reality.
She is no longer here.
On the other hand, murals aren't made for just anyone.
That brought a bit of peace to my heart."
End quote.
In 2021, President Biden signs
the National Defense Authorization Act into law.
The I Am Vanessa Guillen Act lives inside that legislation
and went into effect on January 1st, 2022.
This is now a federal law that protects those
who file harassment or assault charges
against their military colleagues from retaliation. It also aims to remove conflict of interest
from those investigations by handing them over to independent investigators instead
of keeping them within the military's chain of command.
Nice.
Right?
Yeah.
Into law. Yeah. Amazing.
These are huge victories.
They were not won easily.
And the Giants attorney, Natalie Kwan,
is quoted as saying, we literally moved a mountain here.
Huge.
To this day, the Giants continue fighting for justice
in Vanessa's name.
Myra, who has since expressed interest
in a career in politics, has said, quote, it's a miracle that we were able to do such a thing
after so many decades of actual lawmakers trying, end quote.
Wow. Yeah.
And she also says, quote, Vanessa's always been, I think,
the bravest of all of us.
She had a lot of courage.
The advice she used to give me was, if you want something, go for it.
And that's the story of the tragic and senseless death
of Vanessa Guillen and the movement that tragedy inspired.
Holy shit.
Right?
My God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So sad that something so traumatic and awful
has to happen for something to be put into motion
that shouldn't even have to be a second thought.
It just makes me look back on that summer of 2020
and it was like something cracked open
in the realest way.
I will never forget.
Like, do you remember that aerial shot
of fucking Hollywood Boulevard
and all those people marching because of George Floyd
being murdered by the police?
And people just being like, yeah, no, we're not.
Enough, enough.
Yeah, no.
Like all of that energy that people have had,
like in their minds and hearts, I think genuinely,
but didn't know where to put it.
It's like suddenly people are figuring out
where to put it, people are figuring out where it goes
and how to place it and that they can do it.
And like that idea that just that mom being like,
I'll shut this fucking army base down.
She did, it got turned into a law.
They no longer get to be the investigators
if the investigation is about like their boys.
They change the name of the fucking base.
The base.
That's, I mean, that's the energy we all need to put into.
Into all of it.
Activism, yeah, into all of it.
My God, incredible.
Great story, great telling of it. My God, incredible. Great story, great telling of it.
Thank you. Real tip of the hat to Alejandra Keck and Hannah Crichton and Mary McCloschein,
because they do really hard work finding these stories for me. After eight years,
we do a lot of digging. And I always say things like, please try to find me one that has something at the end where it gives people a direction to look toward.
And like, what a perfect example of one
of those kinds of stories.
Or I'll say to them, I don't know if I should do that one.
That one's rough.
And then they're like, if you tell it this way,
or if you do it the way you do it,
it's an important story to tell.
And that definitely helps me when we do some really fucked up
stories like that.
They help us.
The list of things you can get done in just two minutes is short.
But what have I told you that lists could include prepping a delicious chef crafted meal?
With factor, not only is a two-minute meal a reality,
but there are over 35 never-frozen meal options to choose from each week and they're delivered right to your door.
There's no measuring, chopping or cleanup needed.
Factory meals are ready to heat and eat
so your time can be used for more important things
like catching up on your favorite show
or searching for new sinkholes online.
When you place your factor order,
you can also choose from more than 60 add-ons
like shakes, snacks and desserts.
You know, there really is nothing worse
than when you're,
like you work the whole day and it's seven o'clock
and you go into your kitchen, there's nothing there.
And you're like, I guess I can order,
it'll be here in an hour.
It always leads me personally down a very unhealthy road
because it's like, well, it's all out the window anyway.
When you have factor meals, they're beautifully made
and all you have to do, it's like you pull them out,
you open up the top, you throw them in the microwave,
or you can put them in the oven,
and then you have a very well-balanced,
really healthy meal right there.
Head to factormeals.com slash MFM50
and use code MFM50 to get 50% off.
That's code MFM50 at factormeals.com slash MFM50 to get 50% off. That's code MFM 50 at factormeals.com
slash MFM 50 to get 50% off.
Goodbye.
I have one that's not like that at all.
Are we about to take a left turn?
I mean, the leftist turn,
I'm really glad there's some ad break in between our stories
to just kind of balance it out a little bit, you know?
Ad break goes here.
Yeah, if you haven't gotten out of the ad breaks,
like sometimes we need them.
So. Yeah, that's true.
Also, this is a free podcast.
Okay, so, I'm getting mad at people.
Why am I getting mad at people?
We're just, it's, our emotions are high.
Today I'm gonna cover the heist
of one of history's most revered works of
art. Did you know that the Mona Lisa got fucking stolen before? No, I did not. I tell you. That's
not true. It's so true. And this is so interesting to me because this theft, the stealing of the
Mona Lisa turned it into what it is today. The popularity that has today is a direct result,
some would say, of this theft.
Because the only people who thought this was a masterpiece
back then were a niche group of Renaissance art scholars
beginning in the 1860s,
which was 300 years after it was painted.
But the general public was like, yeah, whatever.
We're in that interest today.
She's not even wearing mascara. I don't wanna look at that picture.
Who is she and where her eyebrows is a direct quote.
Was she looking at me like that?
The 1700s.
And where her eyebrows.
She's not even snatched, okay.
Good.
It was so low on the popularity list
when it was in the Louvre
that it took a full 28 hours
before anyone even noticed it had been stolen.
Oh my God.
In 1911.
So it wasn't for the media sensation
that the stuff generated,
the Mona Lisa may have just been another walk by in the Louvre.
I love this.
I love when the internet explained to us why we like
or love things.
Yeah.
Or like you should stop loving it
because here's the story behind it. Right, like or love things. Yeah. Or like you should stop loving it
because here's the story behind it.
Right, the etymology.
Yes.
Stop buying Kellogg's because of this.
You got it.
Oh yeah.
You know, whatever it is.
Did you see their little stock ticker
is going straight down into hell.
Like people are boycotting the living fuck out of Kellogg's.
It's great.
Love it.
By the way, Cheerios is General Mills.
Don't you worry, my Cheerios hive, rise up Cheerios hive.
Listen guys, sometimes the only thing
those fucking megalomaniacs understand,
not sometimes always, is your money
and where you decide to put it.
Yes.
Take a stance with your money.
Boycotts and labor movements are the action required.
Because you know, I voted today for, you know, general elections and I said to Vince, and labor movements are the action required.
I voted today for general elections and I said to Vince,
this feels like when you're hydroplaning
and you're supposed to turn into the skid.
Yep.
So it's not really helping, it's helping,
it doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel right,
it feels like it's not really doing anything,
but you're actually not supposed,
not voting would be yanking the wheel the other direction.
Not voting can't be it because you can look at everybody
and go, they didn't do this right,
they're doing this wrong, blah, blah, blah.
But we cannot turn this country over
to Trump Republicans ever again.
I think everyone understands that.
This will be the last election, you guys. If that happens, I guarantee. It will be the last election. This will be the last election, you guys.
If that happens, I guarantee this will be the last election.
Period.
And as pissed off as you are and as valid as your reasons are.
Yeah, he's fucking old as shit.
It's scary.
He's so old.
And his decisions aren't great, but you're not voting for him.
You're voting for the party.
No, you're voting for us to have a future at all.
Exactly.
Yeah. Hey, let's donate some money
right now, shall we? Yo, good idea. Should it be a food bank? Brilliant. I love it. Pick a fucking,
pick a, the Alejandra, pick a fucking topic. I'll look some up. Okay. A nice national food fund,
yeah, or something along those lines. Love it. Nice one, Georgia. Thank you.
those lines. Love it. Nice one, Georgia. Thank you. Anyways, this is the story of the theft of the Mona Lisa.
This podcast, I love it. That's what we're talking about. I love this podcast. That's what we're talking about. This is my favorite podcast. No. Okay, the main sources used in today's story include an NPR
article written by an unnamed NPR staff writer and a...
Oh, that was me.
That was mine.
Okay, great.
Good job.
It was really good.
It's titled, The Thief of Made the Mona Lisa a Masterpiece.
And a New York Times article written by Sam Roberts and the other sources are in our show
notes.
Great.
Okay.
I'm going to tell you first about the Mona Lisa because I don't know how much you know about it.
You should know some stuff about it before I tell you about it.
I would love to recite
everything that's on your piece of paper.
I would love to just be sent here right now.
This is the part in the live episode where you stand up
and start giving a lecture.
The Mona Lisa was born in
in 1692.
In Italy.
Okay, so blah, blah, blah, Leonardo da Vinci.
He's regarded as a genius.
You know, he was in the like.
He is a genius.
Don't blah, blah, blah Leonardo da Vinci.
You're right.
Not just for his art, Karen,
but for his thoughts on everything from astronomy,
your favorite botany, photography, and the human anatomy.
He was the first one to think of a tank and airplanes.
Oh, really? Yes. Oh, smart. I'm sorry I blah, blah, blah to him. and the human anatomy. He was the first one to think of a tank and airplanes.
Oh, really?
Yes.
Oh, smart.
I'm sorry, I blah, blah, blah to him.
But his central focus is always on humanity.
So in his paintings, he aims to create
the most realistic depictions of human form
as he possibly can.
And this is most exemplified, of course,
by his magnum opus, the Mona Lisa.
I'm so mad. I have a great photo of me
in like 2004 in front of the Mona Lisa. It's a really cool photo, but I don't want to message my
ex-boyfriend to get it, so it's not happening. Is it a hard copy like an actual physical photo?
No, but it's like early digital, like split phone digital, you know? Like the date is in the bottom
right corner, probably. That digital. And is in the bottom right corner. Probably.
That digital.
And I'm probably remembering it wrong.
I probably look terrible and I'm just like,
that in my mind it looks great.
Okay, picture it.
So believed to be modeled from an Italian noble woman
named Lisa del Giaconda,
the Mona Lisa depicts a three quarter,
so abdomen to head, as you know,
realistic looking portrait of a woman
on a 30 inch by 21 inch panel
of white poplar wood. Those are called cowboy close-ups in TV. Really? Yeah. Waste to top of
head. Wow. I'm going to be filled with random, fun information that I have to interrupt you with
because I love when I know something. Okay. And then like Italy, you know, you know a lot about
Italy. So there's Italy stuff happening here.
Although here's the thing I didn't know about Italy,
that somebody way back then
would just have the plain old first name Lisa.
I thought that was like a new name from the 70s, 80s.
It does give 70s, 80s.
It does.
Lisa, hey Lisa.
Hey Lisa, do you have any paintings that you like or?
Hey Lisa, can I buy some barley or whatever?
He begins the painting in 1503 in Florence, Italy and continues working on it up into 1519.
You know, take some time. Yeah.
In order to achieve the realistic look, he expertly uses a technique called
sfumato.
achieve the realistic look, he expertly uses a technique called sfumato. Sfumato.
Sfumato, which literally means banished or evaporated in Italian.
It's the use of gradual, imperceptible transitions from light to dark shades or
colors instead of hard outlines to create smooth images.
Don't really know what most of that means, but.
I think it's like, you know, when you see like a painting of like the ocean and
then the sky behind it. And it fades into kind of one.
They don't go like pink, blue or whatever.
Like a child's rainbow drawing.
What was the nun who would take you to art galleries all over the world?
Sister Wendy.
Sister Wendy.
Guys, if you need to fall asleep to something,
go to YouTube and find Sister Wendy's travels.
Yes, she is the greatest.
Do you know she was self-educated? That's amazing. It's not like she didn't go to college or anything Sister Wendy's travels. Yes, she is the greatest. Do you know she was self-educated?
That's amazing.
It's not like she didn't go to college or anything.
That's amazing.
Portraits of noble women aren't uncommon in the 16th century,
but Da Vinci's approach sets itself apart
and is seen as a revolutionary piece
because the framing is different.
Usually it's a full figure portrait that happens.
And images of nobility tend to show off
their fancy ass clothes and jewels.
But the Mona Lisa's clothing is dark and subdued.
She's just a normal human being.
And that, coupled with an out of focus background,
draws the viewer's attention to Mona Lisa's facial features,
of course, made more striking by her gaze. Back then, when they
would paint women, they would be looking away or down, but she has this like fucking defiant
look into not the camera, but the painting. So it's like, it's not submissive, which it
usually was back then.
Mona Lisa is the painting version of somebody going, what?
Yeah. She coined the phrase, bitch, I said what I said.
She is standing on business.
That's a new one I've learned recently.
She stands on business.
Ooh, I like that.
So the Mona Lisa winds up in the possession
of Da Vinci's assistant named Saleh
just before Saleh, just before DaVinci's death in 1519.
So in 1518, Salle sells the Mona Lisa
that we all know today to the King of France,
King France the first.
King France?
No, King Francis.
Oh, close, close, close, close.
The first king of every country was named the first.
King England of England, King France of France.
I swear this is just fucking matcha and adaptogenic mushrooms.
There's no can wine happening right now.
I know, I'm PG tips, but I did eat a little mini Snickers
before you got on there and get myself a little sugar shot.
Wild.
So some say that Da Vinci gifted the painting to King Francis himself while living in France,
and after working as the King's court painter.
But in any case, King Francis does receive the painting under amicable terms.
So it's weird that the Italian painter gave this one of his eventual masterpieces to France,
but he did, and he did it in good faith. All was well. It belongs there.
He didn't know how good he was, maybe, or he probably did, but like, no one else did.
So yeah, I mean, that's how I feel every time I finish a document.
Here's one of my masterpieces.
Oh, well, I guess I'll give it to you.
We can't all know what our stuff's going to be worth in 300 years.
If we did, that's right.
Just assume it's a masterpiece and act as if.
Exactly. There you go.
It's held at the Palace of Fontainebleau, Fontainebleau.
But when Louis the X1V, what's that?
X1V is Louis the 19th.
Is it? No.
I think 42. Yeah.
Thank you.
The famous one. He's the famous one.
Oh, sure.
Yeah.
You don't know him.
It's Marie Antoinette's buddy.
Oh, got to get it.
Boyfriend.
BFF.
Sorry.
I'm going to stop talking.
I've gone off the rails.
Sorry.
We both have.
We both have.
It was a tense first half of the show.
So much emotion.
Yeah.
So much rage in my spinal fluid right now. Yeah. But I'm trying to work it out other ways. Great. Let's do it. So he emotion. Yeah. So much rage in my spinal fluid right now. Yeah. I'm trying to work
it out other ways. Great. Let's do it. So he comes to power. He moves the pain into the palace of
Versailles. And then in 1797, towards the end of the French Revolution, the Mona Lisa is finally
moved to the Louvre where it remains today. There. Told you about the Mona Lisa. Let me tell you
about the Louvre real quick. Okay. Just a little bit. Not much.
First opened in August 10th, 1793. It's a national museum located in Paris, France, blah, blah, blah. Paris, France. I took a nap inside of it once. No. Yeah. Get your blood sugar checked, everyone.
24 year old Georgia was just like, I don't know why I'm tired all the time. And then like, there's
a marble bench over here in the South Cove.
I'm gonna take a nap there and I did.
You did it?
Oh, that was a great nap.
How long for would you say?
I'd say a good 20 minutes.
Ha ha ha.
Which is short for me.
And like the echoing of the people,
there were a lot of people.
Yeah, the echoing of their voices
in the marble chamber I was in
was really soothing and calming. It was nice.
Ooh, that's like a nice white noise.
Yeah, it was a good nap.
The museum is nearly 72,000 square meters of exhibition space.
Vast collection of historic works makes it one of the most renowned art displays in the
world.
Have you been?
You've been.
To the lures?
To the lures.
Oui, bien sûr.
But I didn't, I was very disappointed when I saw the Mona Lisa because it's so small.
It's so much smaller than you think it's going to be.
It's tiny baby and then you kind of can't get close to it because everybody loves Mona.
Right, right.
So today the Louvre is protected by a vast network of guards, of course, a highly advanced
security system, but in the early 1900s, security for the museum
was incredibly lax, even when taking the lack of modern
technology into account.
They were chill.
They were casual.
They're French.
Yeah, they're French.
The public are admitted to enter and exit the museum
without undergoing any sort of search.
And an ongoing photography project
conducted by the museum at the time
allows for hired photographers to grab a painting off the wall,
bring it upstairs to the roof,
because that's where they can clearly get a good photograph
of it under the sun.
Photograph it and throw it off.
Are you fucking joking me?
Hey, grab whatever you need.
Let's get these catalog, you know.
You should wear gloves, but don't worry about it.
That's no big deal.
Right, right.
And there's perhaps no person who understands this lack of security
that the Louvre has and the vulnerabilities more than a handyman name
than Chenzo Perugia.
Here he is.
Love him.
Let me tell you about him.
It's just like a bunch of fucking stories about random things,
and they're all going to come together.
It's going to lace right together.
It's going to pop.. It's gonna pop.
Born on October 8th, 1881 in Domenza, Barisi, Italy.
Italian. Say that again.
Domenza, Barisi, Italy.
Okay.
Vincenzo is an Italian patriot at heart,
but as a young man, he moves to France in the early 1900s.
Makes his way to Paris, where he gets work as a handyman.
And it's his handyman job that gains him entry into the Louvre.
He is one of a team of men
hired to install the protective glass casings over several of the paintings on display.
You know, they all have them now pretty much, right?
Like, so you don't get your sticky, gross touristy fingers all over everything.
Yeah.
This is when it started happening.
And one of these paintings, of course,
happens to be the Mona Lisa.
So in the summer of 1911,
Benchenzo and his crew are admitted into the Louvre's
salon carer, which is the now iconic exhibition room
where the Mona Lisa is,
and they're there to encase the paintings in glass.
So Benchenzo, of course, familiarizes himself with the building's layout,
hours of operation, staff, and it's our work. Like, you know, he's got other stuff on his mind.
It's an inside job. It always is. And he grew up in a working class family, so he was never a rich
man, but he looks around the Louvre and he has an idea to change that. So on Tuesday, August 22nd, 1911, the still life artist comes
in. He brings his easel and paint to paint the gallery
exhibit in the salon, Kerry, he sets up to paint the gallery.
And then he notices that the model really says not there.
It's just four metal hooks hanging on the wall where the
painting was supposed to be. This guy, his name is Luis Beiraud. He goes to the museum guard. He's like, where's
the Mona Lisa? The guard's like, well, it's probably upstairs on the roof, getting photographed,
as they all are. He's like, that sucks. Goes upstairs, asks one of the photographers, like,
hey, when are you going to be done with Mona Lisa? And they're like, what are you talking
about? We don't have it. And that's when they finally realize it's gone.
I like, check the cafeteria.
No, she's not there.
She's not there.
So eventually 60 detectives alongside museum staff
conduct an extensive search through every gallery,
hallway and pocket of the museum.
And finally, after more than an hour of searching,
police find a stairwell that leads to one of the coat rooms.
And there at the bottom of the stairs lies the large 200 pound frame that
once housed the Mona Lisa.
Ooh.
But of course the painting is nowhere to be found.
I'm sorry, real quick.
The frame weighed 200 fucking pounds.
That painting isn't that big.
I know.
And also you're like, so then how did one person do it on their own, right?
Oh, big guy, big muscley, a weightlifter did it.
Or he didn't do it alone. Oh, that's a mystery. Yeah.
So the assistant curator at the Louvre and Benadit makes the announcement later that evening.
And by the next morning, Wednesday, August 23rd, 1911, the theft of the Mona Lisa is the top news story
around the world, making headlines all the way
to America on the New York Times.
It brings a great deal of embarrassment to France.
It's a country that takes great pride
in its elevated culture.
And so having a painting stolen from their most prominent
national museum feels like an affront
to France's national identity.
They take it personally.
This is not who we are. I don't know why. National Museum feels like an affront to France's national identity. They take it personally.
This is not who we are. I don't know why.
It's an embarrassment.
Oh, that was good.
Thanks.
And again, even though Da Vinci's Italian,
it's the French painting now, so it's, you know...
You're like, Da Vinci's Italian, so who cares?
It doesn't matter.
No.
So even though the Mona Lisa wasn't the Louvre's most popular piece, the buzz of it being stolen
helps grow its popularity, then the French want answers.
So meanwhile, with the country and a frenzy and the world
a buzz, the modest young handyman,
Vincenzo Perugia, is holding on to the Mona Lisa.
Oh.
He fucking stole it.
He did it.
It's in his one room hotel apartment in Paris,
a mere five kilometers from the Louvre.
And I don't think he expected it to be such a frenzy
and such a big deal
because he didn't steal the most famous painting there.
He didn't even steal a large painting.
So he's kind of flummoxed and he's like,
oh, I guess I can't sell this right now.
So he puts it in the false bottom of a trunk
in his apartment and bides his time until he can sell it.
And he knows he's gonna make a ton of cash
once he does sell it.
And so he writes his father and he's like,
yo, soon all our family troubles will be over.
But this is where it breaks down for me
with like thieves and robbers and such.
Because if something is that valuable, a bunch of people give a shit about it.
That's kind of the general rule, especially things like this.
So like, you have a fencer that can trade this and like you know the person?
No, he's just guessing.
He's just crosses fingers and hoping.
He's like hoping that he someday meets
a nefarious art collector, you know?
Yeah.
That's a good point.
It's like, don't steal something
that you think is worthless that other people don't
unless you have a buyer already.
Yeah, you need step two in the plan
or the plan, there is no plan.
Right, exactly.
So yeah, he just holds onto it.
He just like drums up evidence by writing to his dad
that he's gonna come into money soon.
It's just like, not a good plan, you know?
So he lays low and hopes that the frenzy dies down.
All the while, the investigating detectives
are looking at what little evidence they have.
They basically know that the Mona Lisa was last seen
the morning of Monday, August 21st by two guards, and the museum was
conducting a routine deep cleaning so it wasn't open to
the public on this day. And the frame has not been forced open
or destroyed in any way, which means whoever took the painting
knew how to take apart the frame. So they know how the Mona
Lisa may have been taken. But their primary question is now,
of course, who would have done it?
I mean, suspects vary from J.P.
Morgan himself, the rebel artist Pablo Picasso and his gang of Mary fucking, you know,
rebels, I don't know.
And even the Kaiser, because it is right before World War One starts.
Oh, yeah.
So of course, there's no evidence surfacing up.
And so the investigation continues for the next two years
without any real leads and no new evidence.
It peters out and runs cold.
Also it seems like that list of suspects
is like, who are famous people that could have stolen it?
Or it's like, why would the Kaiser steal
a painting from the Louvre?
It's such a bad, it's like,
is this where you see yourself in five years? What are you
talking about? He's good.
Probably Picasso. Why would you do this?
With the buzz having died down a bit now, Vincenzo is ready to seize his fucking moment and
sell the Mona Lisa to someone he happens upon, right?
Yeah.
But don't worry, he's smart enough to know that someone in France will probably rat on him. So
he moves back to his home country of Italy because he's like, they won't care there.
So it's here where he's in Florence, Italy, that he makes his first contact. He finds an
antique stealer named Alfredo Gerry, or Gery, I don't know, on November 29th, 1913.
So this guy Alfredo was like, let's just make sure that this is authentic first of all.
So he calls a director of a prominent Italian gallery and his name is Giovanni. And so Alfred
and Giovanni go to visit Vincenzo. Vincenzo agrees, Vincenzo changes his name to Leonardo
to like as a fake name for whatever reason, you know, get it. And he agrees to show these men the Mona Lisa,
which is stashed away in his hotel room.
And if they choose to buy the painting,
he says he wants the equivalent of $100,000 US,
which in today's money, guess how much he wants
for this painting?
Three million.
What would you charge in 1913?
Oh, 1913.
For the Mona Lisa.
Where Nespresso is five cents.
Yeah. I guess a million, a million dollars?
Three million.
Oh, wait, I guessed correctly the first time.
You did? Yes, roll the tape bag.
Shit, I just didn't hear that.
I finally did it. I finally nailed it.
But you have a good point.
It's like, well, what are they gonna do with it?
I guess they could probably have more contacts, right?
Where they like, nope, people who will buy it.
Rapid anywhere it ends up.
Like unless you plan to hide it in your secret library
at like a weird perverted rich person would,
and it's very possible, but it's like-
I think that's the point.
Yeah.
Someone nefarious puts it in their D-Day bunker
and like shows off.
Goes downstairs, stares at it every once in a while.
There it is.
They agree to the money and they follow Vincenzo
at you know, Asleonardo to his hotel room.
They see the Mona Lisa and they confirm
that it is indeed the real one.
Can you imagine like their excitement
that they were like fighting?
It's there right next to like a picture of some weird plants.
You know what I mean?
It's just like the worst art
and maybe perhaps the best art of all time.
Right, the hotel room art and the Mona Lisa.
But you know, this is so typical.
Of course they didn't move forward with the purchase.
They're like, we'll be right back.
We're gonna get the purchase. They're like, we'll be right back. We're going to get the money.
They call the police and the police come to his hotel room.
So instead of getting the great windfall, he had hoped for.
Vincenzo Perugia is placed under arrest.
Oh, we knew that was going to happen.
I know, right?
Because it's still there because we have it.
Because you can go see the Mona Lisa.
Because she's back, baby.
She's back. He owns go see the Mona Lisa. Because she's back, baby. She's back.
He owns up to the heist.
He gives us a count of how he pulled it off.
The exact details are fuzzy,
but we'll go with his later account of what went down.
He says that about 7 a.m. on Monday, August 21st, 1911,
he dressed in the museum staff uniform
and waits for the guards protecting the salon carer to
leave their post for the cleaning duties and removes the glass casing. And he knew how to do
it because he fucking installed it, you know, right. Lips the painting off the hooks, takes it to the
stairwell, disassembles it and wraps it in a smock. He tries slipping out a nearby door, but it's
locked. And so luckily an unsuspecting maintenance worker walks by
and is like, oh, I got the door for you.
Opens the door for Vincenzo and he pieces out.
Wow.
As time goes on though, new conflicting information
about the heist throws the exact details
of Vincenzo's account into question
and it's still kind of a question today.
Vincenzo claims he worked alone,
but it seems virtually impossible
that he could have removed the large heavy glass casing
and then lift that 200 pound frame off the wall
down the stairs without any assistance.
Right, later accounts claim that two brothers,
and this is kind of believed at this point,
named Mnchenzo and Michel Lanzelotti helped Vincenzo Perugia
steal the painting. But these two are never arrested and their potential role in the
heist can't be confirmed. But it seems likely that there was someone else helping.
Yeah, true. I guess from the beginning, I pictured him to have a very strong upper body.
Yeah, he could definitely have a barrel chest,
as they called it.
Yeah, he's like a strong man, but he works at the museum.
Yeah, there's a mustache, there's a mustache happening,
you know.
Oh, God.
He's a cute Italian guy.
He's like a, you know, Italian guy with hairy forearms
and all the stuff you like.
But here's what he does though.
He admits to the crime, but he swears his actions
were not motivated by money, but rather by patriotism.
He says that he believed that the Mona Lisa is
an Italian work of art and it belongs in Italy.
So he gets on the soapbox about wanting to restore pride
in Italian culture.
He found it despicable that a piece painted by Italy's own
Leonardo da Vinci should live anywhere but its home country
So he spins it into this like I'm the good guy. I don't do it for money
You know you're reviled by probably the whole world
So you got to think of some other like whose fault is it actually it's France's fault
Yeah, and actually Italy is like okay. They rally around Vincenzo. They have him as a hero
Hell, yeah Italy is like, okay, they rally around Vincenzo. They hit him as a hero.
Hell yeah.
Meanwhile, the judge finds him guilty of the crime
and deals to him a year and 15 day jail sentence.
But given the public's appreciation for his efforts
in Italy, the sentence is shortened to just seven months.
If I was the prosecutor, I just would have really,
I would have been like, that's nice, real quick.
How come you didn't just bring it straight back? What was the whole trying to sell it thing?
Right.
And again, the evidence of writing to his dad being like,
we're going to be rich as shit.
Not like you're going to be so proud of me as an Italian.
Yes, no.
We're going to be rich as shit.
It was not about that.
Dear dad, when I repatriate the Mona Lisa,
you weren't going to shit a breath.
Right.
We're still going to be poor, but we're going to be happy.
Oh, but we'll eat on pride.
So those letters do invalidate his claims of a purely patriotic motive.
Even still, Italy rejoices at momentarily having the Mona Lisa back in their possession.
The painting tours Italy. They don't give it back to France right away.
Yes. Yes. I, this part I like.
It tours Italian galleries for the next month
and then they're like, all right, all right,
and they send it back to the Louvre on January 4th, 1914.
And World War I breaks out, and so it kind of all goes away.
So after his release, despite declaring his love
for his country, Italy, Vincenzo finds his way back
to Paris, where he eventually dies from complications of lead poisoning because he
was a handyman and painter, remember, and all that lead is in there.
In 1925 at the age of 44, today the Louvre sees about seven to nine million visitors
every year, an estimated 80% of which comes specifically to see the Mona Lisa.
Yeah, that's why we're there.
Yeah, what percentage of them are a little disappointed
by its size?
I think 78, I would say.
Probably.
Because of the high demand, patrons are allowed
just 30 seconds each to view the painting.
Who's in charge of moving people along in all languages?
Truly, how do you do it?
Oh, my God, seriously. Because when I went there and this was 1987, charge of moving people along in all languages. Truly, how do you do it?
Oh my God, seriously.
Because when I went there and this was 1987,
we walked up and we were literally like 50 people deep.
Yes, same.
We knew for a fact we were never going
to get anywhere close to it.
It looked like they put the Mona Lisa behind some transition
lenses because it was kind of, the glass was kind of gray.
Yeah, yeah.
And I was just like, oh man. Listen, we are not saying don't go to the Louvre. No, like everything else blew my fucking
mind. It was incredible. Go places for sure. Great map, but you should still go. Just find the next
Mona Lisa. Paint the next Mona Lisa. Be the next Mona Lisa. Okay, so what was once an afterthought to anyone outside of art intelligentsia, which
is the Mona Lisa, it was like some people thought it was great, other people didn't
even think about it.
It has become one of the most renowned paintings in the world.
And a lot of that is thanks to the man who stole it.
And that is the story of the theft of the Mona Lisa.
Amazing.
I loved that.
Ha ha ha.
It got stolen.
It had everything I love.
Italians, stealing and the Louvre.
Ha ha ha.
Gaslight outside.
And gaslight.
Yeah.
And gaslighting people.
Oh yeah.
By pretending you're patriotic instead of greedy.
Ha ha ha. Did you ever see it? There's a really amazing picture and gas lighting people. Oh yeah. By pretending you're patriotic instead of greedy.
Did you ever see, there's a really amazing picture
and it's of this amazing honeycomb brick shape
that they built over the David.
And I can't remember if it was before World War I
or World War II, but basically,
cause they couldn't get rid of everything inside the loof.
It must've been World War II, right?
Cause, oh, I don't know anything about World War I,
but pretty sure it was World War Two. Nazis were coming
to protect it. Yes, they bricked up like this beehive shape around the David.
Whoa. So that when the bombs dropped, if if the ceiling caved in, it would still be
protected. It's so good. Fascinating. Yeah. So where are we donating Alejandra? So there is Feeding America, which is the U.S.'s largest domestic hunger relief organization.
Let's do that. Yeah.
If you want to do that, do you guys want me to send this to you so you can read it?
No, you just did it. You're now the third host on the show. Get ready. It's get ready.
Don't go on social media. Don't go on social media. Don't go on social media.
Yeah.
What's the website, Alejandro?
The website is feedingamerica.org.
Great, 10,000 to them.
Yes, do in something about it.
Vote, everyone, please.
And stay strong.
Yeah, it's hard, but you can do it.
You're the Mona Lisa, you're now the Mona Lisa.
Thanks for listening.
We appreciate you guys and this is a good outlet
for all of us.
I mean, it really is.
This one felt like one of the oldest hangs
and you know I love showing off.
So thanks for being an audience
for one of my greatest passions besides the Louvre.
Stay sexy. And don't get murdered!
Elvis, do you want a cookie?
This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck. Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle Creighton.
Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.
This episode was mixed by Liana Squalache.
Our researchers are Maren McClashen and Ali Elkin.
Email your hometowns to myfavoritmurder at gmail.com.
Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook
at My Favorite Murder and Twitter at My Fave Murder.
Goodbye.