My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 424 - Audacity On Tap
Episode Date: April 18, 2024This week, Georgia and Karen cover the 3X Killer and art thief Stéphane Breitwieser. For our sources and show notes, visit www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit m...egaphone.fm/adchoices
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Details at phys.ca. My favorite murder.
Hello.
And welcome to my favorite murder.
That's Georgia Heartstart.
Thanks. That's Karen Kilcariff. You're welcome. To my favorite murder. That's Georgia Heartstart. Thanks, that's Karen Kilkeriff.
You're welcome.
I feel like I was doing a irritating harmony
on purpose on that intro there.
Oh, that's how tone deaf I am.
I didn't even notice.
You thought it sounded beautiful?
Yeah, perfect.
Like a, what, a fairy tale, no, limerick, no, you know.
I'd be kind of dirty.
Yeah.
It's a limerick.
What's your favorite limerick?
I should have asked you on St. Patrick's Day,
but I forgot.
I'm not Irish.
I don't have one, you know that.
You have to pick one.
I don't want to, I love them all.
How do you choose?
Truly, they're all like children to me.
What's going on? What do you have to report?
Not a whole lot. Still making friends with the crows.
The murder of crows that everyone fucking pointed out after we recorded last week.
And it's like, yeah, we didn't make that connection at all.
Right. We're going to drop a lot of balls.
Hey, if this is your first episode,
prepare to be disappointed.
We're not gonna catch on for weeks, probably.
I mean, also I feel like people,
especially in the social media age,
don't understand that pun-based wordplay
is the most difficult to hear
when you're in the middle of your own thought.
It's for the listener, right?
You're not there trying to churn something up.
So you can sit there and be like,
but it's like, but you're mad that we didn't think of it.
But it's like, I'm in here with all this other magic.
Well, you went straight to mad.
And I don't think that they were mad at us.
I think they're furious.
I feel like I used to do puns a lot more and a lot better.
And now I just like maybe doing this off the cuff now.
Cause it's been-
I feel like that's partly on me.
I think I shamed you.
Yeah, that's true.
Shame works really well on me.
It's surprising, not surprising.
Me too. Look, it's, I think that's shame.
That's why it's one of the big five.
It's really effective. Whoever's why it's one of the big five. It's really effective.
Whoever's doing it to whoever.
But also in standup comedy, when I started,
doing a pun was like farting on stage for jokes, for laughs.
And nowadays it's very common and celebrated.
So this is just how times change.
Yeah, get with the program, us.
I don't want to.
Or don't, it's totally a prerogative.
I think I'm turning the program off and I'm just going to go sit in a quiet corner as
a middle-aged lady.
Your brain, the program of your brain?
Yep, got to turn that thing off every once in a while.
It's so loud.
God, shut up, lady.
And I mean, what are they even talking about in there? It's so loud. God, shut up, lady. And I mean, what are they even talking about in there?
It's mostly static.
It's all like shit from fourth grade.
It's not relevant anymore.
Stop it.
Let it go.
Your 20s were so long ago now.
No one remembers.
No one cares.
So stop it.
Thank God.
Thank God.
Count your blessings and stuff it.
Oh, wait, are you getting religious?
Yeah. I didn't mean God, God. I meant like, you know, the idea of thanking someone.
Oh, count your blessing style.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gratitude vibes, gratitude vibes.
I'm talking hashtag blessings, not fucking like holy.
Oh, the most meaningless blessing.
Right.
Just empty blessing.
No, no, no, this is all hashtag based.
My religion is hashtag based.
I mean, I think all of life is truly just a shell,
a shell of what it used to be.
Hashtag keep JK living.
Yeah, totally.
Hashtag do your best.
Hashtag or not, or take a fucking nap, it's fine.
Hashtag what does it matter anyway.
Yeah, that whole thing of like,
everyone wants to give 110%,
I wanna give 80% and then use the 20, extra 20% or 30,
whatever it is, to fucking enjoy my life.
That's right. That's fine.
I think my ratio would be, I wanna give 50%.
Okay. And then want a day drink.
The other 50%.
Until 8 PM.
What are the numbers we're relating again?
I can't remember.
I'm not going to math, but that sounds like an equation I can get behind.
I was with my friend Zach Noy Towers, friend of the show and listener of the show.
And he and I were at lunch at this place.
And it was just, it was a Sunday afternoon.
It was like a Mexican restaurant in Silver Lake.
It was perfect vibes.
We were just like, one of us was eating a breakfast burrito,
one of us was eating lunch, whatever.
And it was just like, ugh.
But then there were these people at the bar just chatting, sitting at the bar,
super casual,
natural light coming through the kind of high window.
They walk there, I'm sure, right?
Yes, they know each other, I think.
And they're just chit chatting and laughing.
And then they all decide to do a shot together.
And I'm eavesdropping, but I'm like, hey, addict,
like stop listening to that.
Oh, you, yeah.
Yes, me, NYOB, not to anybody else.
NYOB, uh-huh.
NYOB to me.
Hashtag NYOB.
Hashtag.
Yeah, how did you feel?
How did that make you feel?
Well, I just felt like I knew intellectually in my mind that the thing I thought, like
the longing my heart that was pouring out of me,
that I knew that it was an idea that was attached
to old things and not like my current reality.
So it was like, yes, you think that would be a good idea.
It would absolutely end up being probably a bad idea,
whatever, but just like thinking about it,
the waiter comes over and puts down two bright pink shots
in front of both of us and goes,
these are for you guys.
Like, we love you guys.
And we look at each other and start laughing where I was like, it was like he was the best
waiter in the world because he was picking up on my psychic alcoholism and was like,
guess what?
We have for you free shots.
Yeah.
And now we're going to make it even harder.
We know how hard this is even to be in this restaurant.
However, now you have to like purposely say no.
You don't have to just not order it.
Now you have to say no.
Yes, now you can't do the thing where like,
well, I have to be polite,
like the rationalizations that of course
I would absolutely do.
But anyway, luckily my friend Zach act is like, no thanks.
It's so hard, but the thing I think about
is that Sunday at brunch,
you got to leave and then go do things with your life.
Even though you're just sitting on the couch
and watching TV, it's still being present and aware,
which doesn't happen when you drink.
I mean.
Right, because I personally,
and I'm only speaking for myself here,
although this is gonna sound familiar to you.
I get up at that bar, I'd finish what we were eating,
do them shots, say, we probably need one more.
I know where you're gonna end up.
Right?
The drawing room, right?
You end up, this is what happens,
you're at this beautiful brunch place
and you end up down the street
at the fucking dankest dive bar.
Singing the closest fucking karaoke
where people are like, ma'am, I'll tell you what's going on.
Stop singing that song so loud at me.
Oh my God.
Ugly, ugly.
I mean, thankfully I just don't do shots anymore.
I mean, that's just, I can't.
How could anybody over, I don't know,
what's the cutoff age, 28?
How old am I, 43?
I'd say 43, do 43.
Here's what's beautiful about the concept of shots.
It is a communal unifying activity.
Yeah, it's like everyone putting on party hats.
Yeah. Right?
But then it's like that hat really affects your brain.
Yeah, the hat's a little too tight.
That little rubber band around your chin
is kind of cutting off your fucking air supply.
I like it.
I'm like, this hat's awesome.
Day nap.
Hey, are you day drinking
while you're listening to this episode?
Cause we wanna know, here's what we're gonna do.
Last week we just randomly like, what do you guys do while you're listening to this episode? Cause we wanna know, here's what we're gonna do. Last week we just randomly like,
what do you guys do while you're listening to this episode?
And you guys actually answered that question.
So genius. Which is so cool.
So we're gonna start a new thing, trend?
That's not a trend, where we hashtag read those
at the end of the episode.
So comment on our TikTok, on our Instagram, wherever,
and let us know what you're doing
while you're listening to this episode
and we'll start reading them.
I think the magic of this show is that if George and I
just have a thought pass through our head,
you guys show up and go like, I will answer you,
I'm all about this.
And it really is very fun.
It's the very fun part of that kind of engagement.
So do you wanna read your people telling us
what we're doing that Alejandra split up some of the answers so that we could read them to each other.
Yeah. Let's call it hashtag, what are you even doing right now?
And that voice.
Perfect. Yep.
What are you even?
It's confrontational and it's sophomore year.
Hashtag. This one's, I supervise a cemetery in Wyoming. I have a lot of cleanup, leaves, sticks, trash,
plastic flowers, et cetera, to prep for Memorial Day. This time of year, I spend seven hours with
a big ass backpack blower on my back, blowing debris from one end to the other of the 60-acre
property. Wow. Thank Jesus for your, with a G, thank Jesus for your, and a Z, thank Jesus
for your podcast and many other true crime podcasts to get me through this.
Hey, you asked, love you all, Lonnie, she, her.
Lonnie, we did ask and we loved hearing it.
That's, what a visual.
You're leaf blowing a cemetery.
That's beautiful.
That sounds like a Wes Anderson movie immediately.
It also sounds like the perfect intro
to any true crime series.
Yeah. Like,
hey, guess what's going to happen to this lady? Oh, my God. She's going to discover something. Yeah. That's going to unnerve the rest of the town. Yeah. Not Lonnie. Lonnie is all over it.
But it'll change her life. And then just a leaf blower goes off. Okay, here's this one.
It says, what am I doing?
Hey ladies, you asked us to tell you what we're doing
while we listen to the latest podcast, so here it is.
I was driving to practice to sing in the backup choir
for the world renowned Italian singer, Andrea Bocelli,
who will be in concert this Saturday night in Indianapolis.
And then it just says, there it is, Dan, he, him.
Wow, okay, I, him. Wow.
Okay, I love this new thing.
What are you even doing right now?
I love it.
What are you even doing right now?
The range, the detail of people's actual lives.
It's so beautiful.
Oh my God.
I love it.
I love it.
I love it too.
It's so good.
Yeah, it's perfect.
Oh, hey, we also have a true crime. Nope. We also have a podcast good. Yeah, it's perfect. Oh, hey, we also have a true crime.
Nope, we also have a podcast network.
Yeah, that's true.
So you wanna hear some highlights?
Good, here they are.
Here they are.
Hey, there's a podcast on our network called
Do You Need a Ride?
It's hosted by, yeah, it's hosted by this guy,
Chris Fairbanks and this chick, Karen Kilgarriff.
No big deal.
This week, their guest is the incredible Tig Notaro.
Tig's new comedy special, Hello Again,
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Just what a treasure Tig is.
Tig Notaro has been putting out like insanely killer
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We do.
Also, over on this podcast, We'll Kill You, Erin and Erin are back with their seventh season of the podcast.
I mean, just a day one podcast for the Exactly Right Network.
Yes, love them.
We love them. This week's episode covers chronic fatigue syndrome.
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Fuck, I love that podcast.
Okay.
So good.
And on That's Messed Up, Kara and Lisa discuss Penetration, an SVU episode from 2010.
Their guest this week is J.C.
Mackenzie, who has played four different characters in the Law and Order universe.
So make sure to check that out.
It's so funny.
Sorry, do you mind if I really quick look up J.C. Mackenzie
just so, cause I know I will know who it is.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, you've seen this man, very familiar.
Oh, the departed in Wolf of Wall Street and the Irishman.
Hello, Martin Scorsese loves you.
That's a journeyman actor, a working actor.
Yep, that's so cool.
Congratulations, sir.
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Season 11 of 10 Fold More Wicked, you have to hear it.
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Hey, Georgia. Yeah?
You know, there's always some fad to keep up with,
like pickleball.
What's going on with that?
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Goodbye.
Okay, Karen. Listen, it's a cold case, okay?
Look.
Look and listen to this cold case,
but it's a classic 1930s, very strange tale
that I think you and I can get to the bottom of.
Oh.
And I don't know why I've never heard of this.
It's one of those, like you'd see it late at night
on like a, you know, rankers top 10 weird murders
that have never been solved cases.
Okay.
You know?
So it's a skull case from the 1930s
and the murders happened at Lover's Lanes
in Queens, New York.
And the police receive a series of letters
written by the killer alleging he and his victims
are a part of a mysterious
international organization.
And like it's a big maybe spy thing.
Okay.
And the letters say that there'll be more victims
if the people who are targets don't give up their secrets.
So this is the story of the 3X killer.
That's the like moniker 3X.
So the main sources I used in today's story include an article from Daily News by Mara
Boveson and a passage from the book, The Encyclopedia of Unsolved Crimes by Michael Newton.
And all of their sources are listed in the show notes.
Okay.
Get ready to put your detective hat on.
Okay.
So it's 1930.
Here we are.
39 year old deli owner, Joseph Mosinski,
is living in the Queensborough of New York City
with his wife and two kids.
Unfortunately, he's also having an affair
and has a mistress.
She's 19 years old. Immediate red flag. We don't like that.
On the evening of June 11th, 1930, Joseph asks his wife to close their deli up while he quote,
runs an errand. But really he's going to meet up with this mistress. Her name is Catherine May.
So Catherine and Joseph have been having an affair for the last two years. So when he picks
her up on that evening, he drives her out to the local Lover's Lane spot
in the Whitestone neighborhood of Queens.
It's just kind of another standard night
for the two of them.
They slip into the back seat like they always do,
but suddenly out of nowhere,
a short thin man in a black fedora appears
from the darkness wielding a handgun.
It is like every horror movie you've ever seen.
The man orders Joseph to get out of the back seat,
get into the driver's seat.
19-year-old Catherine is sitting there watching
as her lover of two years is then shot in the head twice
and dies.
She's just sitting there in the back seat.
Just murdered in front of her.
Right in front of her.
And she's like trapped back there.
Once Joseph is dead, the stranger rifles through
Joseph's pockets until he finds some papers
and Catherine has no idea what the papers are.
She never gets the chance to find out
as the killer pulls out a match
and then lights those papers from his pocket on fire
from Joseph's pocket.
There's a lot of reports
that then she was sexually assaulted as well,
but some people don't bring it up,
but I think that happened.
Then the killer forces Catherine out of the car
and marches her about a mile southeast
to the Bayside neighborhood.
And from there, he gets on a bus to Flushing with her.
And then in Flushing, he puts Catherine on a trolley alone
and then takes off.
But before he leaves her, he hands her a piece of paper
with two circles stamped on it in red ink.
And in one of the stamped circles is Joseph,
the victim's name.
And then the other is 3X.
Then he lets her go on the trolley
and he disappears into the night.
Like what a terrifying ordeal for her.
Yeah, and confusing.
Right.
Like what is all this?
Yes. Yes.
And I think she's been sexually assaulted,
so she's traumatized.
So like she doesn't know what's going on.
She's too scared to go to the cops.
She decides not to report what happened.
But the next morning, June 12, 1930,
a passerby happens upon Joseph's body lying in a ditch near his abandoned truck. He calls the police,
they search the truck and they find a woman's coat covered in blood and they're able to trace
it to Catherine and bring her in for questioning. Yeah. And it's just odd. She makes up a story
about an Italian gangster and that, you know, and that maybe Joseph had been involved in the mob,
but then she tells them what really happened,
saying she had been too scared to tell the truth.
But the police, because she's changing her story,
and because it's the 1930s,
don't believe what she's saying.
So they hold her,
but they eventually rule her out as a suspect
and they let her go.
But without much
evidence and having no real regard for Catherine's story, like they don't believe her anyway,
the police, you know, get involved in other cases. They don't care.
Right. So this all changes just five days later on June 17th, 1930, when another body
that of 26 year old Brooklyn bred radio mechanic, mechanic Noel Soule is found dead in his car.
The car is parked at another Queens area, Lover's Lane,
parked in a turnout.
He had spent the previous night hooking up
with his 18-year-old lover, Betty Ring.
Police bring Betty in for questioning,
and she recounts a story that's very similar to Katherine's
story.
According to Betty, Noel picked her up
on that evening of June 16th and drove them out
to this secluded lover's lane spot.
They're kind of hooking up in the back seat
and then a short thin man in a quote,
dirty black fedora shows up and points his gun
at Noel demanding to see his ID.
The man checks it and then uses a flashlight
to flash some sort of like signal
into the darkness, like he's signaling someone else.
He turns back to Noel and said,
you're the one we want, all right,
you're gonna get what Joe got.
And then with that, the man forces Noel
into his driver's seat and shoots him twice in the head
again, just fucking kills him. After killing Noel,
the man let out what Betty said is a hideous laugh. And then through a copy of the newspaper
clipping about Joseph's death on top of Noel's body, he sifts through Noel's pockets. He finds
some mysterious pages, which Betty describes as looking like an electric company bill. So like nothing she could recognize is important.
And the killer then cries out, I have it.
Like he's yelling to whoever he flashed his flashlight out.
So then he directs his attention to Betty.
We're all assuming to sexually assault her.
She says at that moment, she could tell that his face was pale, wrinkled skin,
piercing creepy eyes, quote, they were eyes that never
blinked like the eyes of a fish swimming through water. Yeah. And to her horror, the man leans
in to try to kiss Betty, but she holds up her cross on her necklace. What's a St. Joseph
medallion? Because that's what she had.
Oh yeah, that's just a little, it's basically, it kind of looks like this.
Like a little pendant.
It's like a little silver pendant
and it has a picture of Saint Joseph on it.
And I think he's the one, whatever,
there's all kinds of saints
and they all help you with different things.
Well, he fucking helped her because this guy was like,
he stopped, he could tell that she was Catholic
and because of that, he backs off.
Wow. Which is wild, yeah.
So either he was a demon, a true demon,
or he was also Catholic guilt.
Right.
But just as he did with Catherine,
the killer leads Betty, takes her out of the car
and walks her away after she just watched
her fucking lover get shot to death.
How, like he didn't just run away from the scene,
he like brought her into the city,
he puts her on a bus, but before he departs,
he leaves her with a piece of paper,
rubber stamped with two circles in red ink.
The first circle has Noelle's name and the second three X.
This clue to me is really important
because when I heard this whole story,
I was like, oh, he just was a weirdo who happened upon these people on Lebers Lane, but he had this
piece of paper that already had the victim's name on it.
So it wasn't random, right?
No, right.
Unless he wrote it after he killed them.
I don't know.
But it sounds like the way the women are reporting it, this is all part of the plan, right?
He's looking for a certain person,
finding him, throwing down,
like this is his business card of-
But with the, yeah, but with the person's name on it,
which sounds like it's premeditated,
unless because on both of those victims,
he went through their pockets, saw their ID,
so he could have written their name down after the fact
and then handed it to her.
But don't you think that the women would mention that?
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Right?
That'd be a different vibe.
I don't know.
It would have been mentioned, it feels like.
Yeah, because one feels like kind of a murderer going crazy
and one feels like someone with a plan
that's executing a plan maybe.
Well, the police, when they heard about it,
actually thought that it could possibly be an escapee
from the Creedmoor asylum,
which was close to the scene of one of the murders,
which is chilling.
But, so now they have these two strikingly similar stories
from these two witnesses, they have no two strikingly similar stories from these two witnesses.
They have no connection to each other.
So they finally take Catherine's testimony seriously
as well as Betty's,
and they begin a more earnest investigation
and find that the local newspaper
are already a few steps ahead of them.
The killer has been sending letters
to the daily news offices,
asking them to print his messages. Wow.
Super zodiac vibes.
That's right. Like, the first.
Yeah. Yeah.
The first letter came on June 13, 1930,
after the murder of Joseph.
It reads, quote,
"'Kindly print this letter in your paper
for Mosinski's friends.'"
And then it's like a series of, you know,
letters and numbers, looks like a code.
"'By doing this, you may save their lives.
We do not want any more shooting unless we have to.
Hmm.
So it's too cryptic for police to decipher, but they wouldn't have to wait long for more of an explanation
because on June 14th, a second letter arrives at the Daily News calling Joseph, their first victim, a quote, dirty rat.
The killer explains that his mission was, quote, to get certain documents from Joseph, their first victim, a quote, dirty rat. The killer explains that his mission was, quote,
to get certain documents from Joseph,
but unfortunately they were not in his possession
at the time.
Because remember he was the one that they like,
he had burned the documents?
Yeah.
And he said that those weren't the right documents.
There were other documents.
The killer warns that if the true holder
of these documents doesn't return them, quote,
14 more of Mosinski's friends
will join him. And then Noel gets murdered. The same day that Betty Ring is questioned
one day after Noel's murder, the newspaper office receives another letter from the killer
explaining the alleged situation. The killer claims that he is a former officer. And this
is like, he's over explaining in a way that I don't think they do.
In a way that liars do.
That liars do or yeah, you're making it up. There's something going on in your head and
it makes total sense in your head. But like real Russian and German spies aren't like,
let me break this down for you.
No, no, I think that seems to, I would guess, go against the spy training.
Yeah, yeah, like number one rule of spy training.
Zip it.
Yeah.
So the killer claims that he's a former officer of the German army and now works for the Russians
as a quote, agent of a secret international order.
Like as soon as you're saying that.
Yeah, either say the name of it or don't.
Right, well he does eventually say what it is.
Oh, sorry.
It's called, no, no, no, it's still dumb.
It's still not okay.
Okay.
He says that his victims are members of his order
called the Red Diamond of Russia.
And then the victims that he murdered have deserted
and taken top secret documents with them.
Okay.
He also sends along two bullet casings,
which match the bullets that were used to kill Noel.
So it's legitimately him.
So he goes on to tell them Noel's secret society code name,
and he warns that quote,
"'13 more men and one woman will go
if they do not make peace with us
and stop leading us to death.
So it's like a message to the other ex spies to like,
I don't know, fess up, I don't know what.
To turn over their documents.
Right.
Sounds like, yeah.
Noel, the killer writes,
had one of the two missing documents on him,
but there's one more document left to recover.
And if the person he suspects has it doesn't give it up, a person and he gives their code
name it's like WRVA.
It's like, you know, random code.
They will be murdered that night, June 18th, 1930 at 9pm.
And then he gives the location College Point neighborhood of Queens.
So the night and the time and the place, he's like, here it is.
What do you think happens?
Everybody from Queens shows up.
I would give anything to be able to travel back in time
and be there that night.
Five minutes, you get five minutes.
The accents alone,
cause it's the thirties in Queens.
Are like next level.
The aprons, the hands on hips, the cigarettes.
Oh my, the gestures, the gesturing.
The limericks, the limericks.
Oh, endless.
I love that idea that like people and queens are like,
well, let's go down and see if the spies show up and get murdered.
What else is there to do?
I mean.
There's no true crime podcast.
It's like you have to do it somehow.
Yep.
Yeah, so they all fucking show up as do the police.
They stake it out.
Obviously nobody, I'm sure he was there probably, right?
Like they love that.
You mean the fish eye guy?
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
He's just there watching other people look for him.
Yeah.
A Peter Laurie type I'm gonna say.
Yep, yep.
Around 2000 cars, over 2000 cars from around the city
make their way to College Point,
causing bumper to bumper traffic
in the little neighborhood.
Epic.
They were always murderinos.
This isn't new.
It's not new.
It's not just women. It's not even that new. It's not new. It's not just women.
It's not even that special.
It's human instinct.
Are you going to do something fucked up?
Well, I'm going to check it out.
A guy has promised to kill someone that night
in a car with a gun, we're expecting.
Hey, let's get in the car and go to that spot.
Like, what the fuck?
I mean, I feel like that is very New Yorker energy where they're like,
well, let's go down there then. Well, let's, let's just see for ourselves.
We're not going to take some cop's word for it.
Right, right. So, but of course all the hype is for nothing.
No killer shows up, no murder takes place. And the following day, June 19th,
the killer pens a letter saying the intended target
with their code name had actually returned the documents along with $37,000 of blackmail
money that they had allegedly secured in exchange for the documents.
First of all, are you going to tell me how much $37,000 is worth in today's money?
I am and I have another, I have it right here. Hold on.
Cause I am on the edge of my couch right now.
Okay. In 1930, today would be worth Karen.
I always get this wrong.
That's the point. That's the point. We've never gotten it right.
I never once. Yeah.
Somewhere around in the market of $300,000?
Almost $700,000.
God damn it.
600,900, 694,000.
694,000, Flushing Queens, New York, New York.
So even more, yeah.
I think everything was a penny back then.
I mean, for real.
Another weird detail that will help us solve this
is that Joseph, the first victim,
had a month before his murder,
deposited $8,000 into his bank account.
And remember, he owns a deli,
and you know how much $8,000 was worth back.
Well, was it somewhere around $250,000?
$150,000.
Fuck, honey.
So that's odd, right?
Like that's an odd little thing.
Maybe he got a loan from his parents-in-law, who knows?
But if there was an overt explanation,
they would, don't you think they'd explain it away
right away?
It might've been lost to time, you know? same thing with like, yeah, the writing down of the
name like that maybe was just lost. Okay, now, that means that both of these missing documents
have been recovered, right? It's over. No, apparently, there's a third missing document now,
because Joseph Mosinski is this brother of one of the victims who lives in Philadelphia,
he gets a threatening letter from the killer
a few days later on June 21st.
He accuses Joseph's brother of hiding
whatever document Joseph was supposed to have.
And obviously this guy calls the police immediately
because he's like, I'm actually not a spy
and don't have these documents, what the hell's going on?
And the NYPD expand their search
for the killer to Philadelphia, but they don't find anything.
So that evening on June 21st, 1930,
another New York publication,
the New York Evening Journal, your favorite.
Yeah.
Lifetime member.
Bringing you all the news that's news to news.
I think was they're saying.
Yeah, that's what it was.
They get the killer's final letter.
It says, quote, my mission is ended.
There's no further cause for worry.
He also makes it a point to say,
in reference to Betty's description of his appearance,
remember she called him fish eyes or whatever.
Okay, can you imagine being a fucking Russian spy?
You're like diabolical, you're a murderer,
you're getting documents and someone calls you fish eyes.
And so in the letter you write to the newspaper,
you say quote, I have no fish eyes.
The police have fish eyes.
They have been wrong from beginning to end.
Like dude, guess who has fish eyes?
Such an amazing burn to be like,
I don't have fish eyes.
The police have fish eyes.
They're wrong.
Like, what is happening?
I bet you if they're training spies somewhere,
that they're just like,
try not to do a lot of chit chat in the letters to the newspaper
when you're threatening and blackmailing.
Here's a great idea. If someone's, if a witness says you look like something, a lot of chit chat in the letters to the newspaper when you're threatening and blackmailing.
Here's a great idea.
If someone's, if a witness says you look like something,
tell the newspaper you don't actually look like that.
It's not true.
Work on your reactivity,
because it'll bring you down.
If you get real sensitive
about your weird unblinking eyes, they have you.
You know?
That's it.
Come on.
But apparently not.
The end of the letter states, quote,
"'Do not let anyone fool you.
If any more letters come, they're fakes.
It is settled.'"
And it's true, some fake letters come in later
and they arrest people for it.
But he never, doesn't seem like the killer
ever appears anywhere again.
Huh.
The murders do stop, but the police's hunt
for the killer continues.
Police wonder if perhaps the 3X killer
was actually telling the truth
about the secret organization.
And of course now on the internet,
there's people who are like,
fuck, maybe it's true.
Like it was during, you know,
not the Cold War, but the Red Scare.
Was it?
We weren't friends with Russia during this time.
True.
That's more of a recent thing.
Yeah.
You. during this time. True, that's more of a recent thing. Yeah. You know.
In my lifetime, they've always been the big bad wolf.
But apparently 2016 had all changed for some reason.
Yeah, you know listeners, historians.
Okay, they search extensively for the killer
for the next several months.
They get no solid leads.
The case goes cold.
Six years later in 1936, a New York state trooper arrests a 29-year-old guy named Frank
Engel of College Point, noting his quote, queer actions in a parking garage.
What does that mean?
I need more details.
Just like kind of walking three steps forward and then being all jerky and then going two back
and kind of like, what could you be doing?
Oh my, he's like dancing to Devo.
He's a time traveler.
Like what's happening?
What?
He's like, I'm about equality.
People are like arrest him immediately.
Yeah, he confesses to the three X murders,
but his story is discredited
and he's committed to an asylum for psychiatric treatment
because that's what they did back then, straight to jail.
Well, at least they had services
for people who needed mental support.
Right, so the three ex-killings are thought by some
to be an inspiration for both the son of Sam,
because it was killing people on lovers land, like couples,
and the Zodiac murders.
Like maybe both those dudes knew about these murders.
Maybe.
And there's a theory that the killer could be related
to the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby,
which happened in 1932, two years later.
Oh yeah.
Because of the whole German tie
and some of the handwriting analysis, that kind of thing.
But there's very little evidence there.
By little, I mean none. By little, I mean none.
By little, I mean the habit that people
who pay attention to true crime have
of going, what if there is a super larger plan
where this one killer is a bunch of killers?
Yeah, it's called speculation and we fucking love it.
And like, sorry.
And also it would be really satisfying
if there are not repeated versions of the same horrifying
type of man out in the world, but just one bad guy.
Exactly.
That's a really nice idea.
It is. It's like very calming, but no.
It's like thinking, I think zodiac's probably
multiple people, don't you?
Oh, I don't know.
I think they're not all attributed to him.
I think there's multiple people.
Yeah, once they started.
Yeah.
Because it was like basically people's first experience
with a repeat, like a serial, true serial killer.
Yeah, yeah, who knows?
We're not gonna figure that out today.
Not today.
I have my own whole story to tell.
Right, and you have to listen to future episodes to know.
Did we solve this case?
That's right.
As I said, some believe he may have been an escapee
from the Creedmoor asylum, but as the years roll on
and no new suspects emerge,
the mystery of the 3X killer is still alive today.
And that is the story of the Queens, New York 3X killer.
Oh, I am absolutely going to look on Reddit threads
for all the people who have done deep ass dives on this
because that is just enough mystery to be like,
this could just as easily,
this was a person getting revenge
for various reasons.
Like the two guys weren't connected, the two victims.
The podcast, The Trail Went Cold does a deep dive
and he is so good at research, congratulations.
Hey.
Yeah, so that's a good one to listen to.
Well, some people do it for a living.
As do our own researchers, our research is now amazing
because we hired people who know how to do it for a living.
Makes all the difference.
I really enjoyed the research.
I don't know how you feel.
I think I was good at it and I had a lot of fun with it.
Oh yeah, we worked our asses off on that shit.
So much of my life every week,
going down rabbit holes, finding little bits of information.
That's part of what I'm proud of this podcast.
Yeah.
I loved that.
That's a cold case I can get behind. Yeah. 1930s, man. It's
like a time and a place. Yeah. Fascinating. And also like it just could have easily been
a person who got a bunch of really weird ideas and took a red rubber ring stamp and put some
stamps around people's names and made some weird plans because he didn't like his neighbor
or you know, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Like he took the first guy plans because he didn't like his neighbor or whatever.
Who knows?
Yeah, like he took the first guy out
because he actually did,
yeah, that was his neighbor and he hated him.
And then he had to do another one to make,
to cover the fact that it was just a neighbor he hated.
Cause they would have found that out.
So then he made up this whole fake thing
about being a spy.
Yeah, he tried to take maybe a personal vendetta
and make it into like,
this is an international espionage thing.
So the cops wouldn't be on to him.
Yeah, maybe.
Well, thanks, that was great.
Thank you.
You did great research on it.
Ali did great research on it.
Ali's amazing.
Jay did this research, but love them both.
Oh, well, props to Jay Elias,
because he also did my research.
So he's holding down this entire episode.
Yes, he is.
But then pointed you in the direction
where you could go then know about it
and read up about it.
Appreciate it.
I still do research, guys.
We really like these topics.
That's why.
That's why we have a podcast about it.
It's pretty interesting.
And it's fun to talk about something
that you just learned about,
like you're a lifelong expert.
That's really one of my favorite things to do.
I think that that's what the name of the podcast
comes from is like, oh my God, this is my favorite murder.
Like that's, we don't mean that we love the thing.
It's the way it's said that is translated that way, right?
Mm-hmm.
You knew that, I'm not explaining it to you.
Okay.
Wait, what? Mm-hmm. You knew that. I'm not explaining it to you.
Wait, what?
Georgia, did you know that April is Stress Awareness Month?
Oh, I had no idea.
I thought stress made itself aware every month, Karen.
You know what?
We should all just take a deep breath.
Okay.
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Goodbye.
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Okay, so this is also a little bit of a left turn.
Not that we really have to take one after that story,
but I find this so compelling
and I would love to watch a movie about this.
So I'm gonna tell you today
about the most prolific art thief in modern history.
Who?
Right?
Well, I'll tell you, in early 1994, a 22-year-old Frenchman named Stephane Breitweiser.
Now, his name is pronounced differently in different forms of media.
And some people pronounce it Stéphane,
but I've also heard more native English-speaking people pronounce it like the classic Stéphane. I'm just going to do it that way because I want to end up doing it like that.
I'm going to request Stephane.
Stephane, I think that's truly the pronunciation instead of me pretending I have an accent that's
like French Swedish. It would be weird. Okay.
So a 22 year old Frenchman named Stephane Breitwieser and his girlfriend, 22 year old
nurse's aide Anne-Catherine Klein-Klaus, the two of them are visiting a museum called
the Museum of the Friends of Tann in Northeastern France.
The two of them are both art lovers, but Stephane grew up rich and he had priceless works of
art in his house because of that.
So he has a particularly strong attachment to the visual arts and the finer things in life.
He loves like this kind of art.
Congratulations.
Right. So as he's walking through this museum, his girlfriend,
he sees something that stops him in his tracks. It's a hand-carved flintlock pistol from the 18th century.
It reminds him of an antique weapon that his father used to own. Obviously, there's some nostalgia
there, but it's also very beautifully made. Stefan loves this one in this museum. He loves it more
than anything he ever saw his father have. He looks around and then he notices there's no security guard
and there's no alarm system in this museum. And then he notices the display case this gun is in
is partially open. Oh shit. So he points it out to his girlfriend and he says that he tells her he
doesn't think that this pistol belongs cooped up in this stuffy museum.
He thinks it should be with someone
who would truly appreciate it every day.
Free range guns, great idea.
Basically all museums should really be about
who deserves it most and then they get to take it home.
Right.
Like a library for rich assholes.
So basically he says that to her kind of joking,
saying this shouldn't be here,
it's, you know, it deserves to go home with me,
thinking that she'd be like the voice of reason.
And instead she looks at him and says, go ahead, take it.
And so he does.
Honey enabling.
And so thus begins the story of art thief, Stefan Breitwieser.
The main sources that Jay used in today's story are an article from GQ entitled The
Secrets of the World's Greatest Art Thief by Michael Finkel.
And just so you guys know, Michael Finkel has been on Wicked Words with Kate Winkler-Dawson. Go listen to the Wicked Words episode.
It is entitled Michael Finkel, the Art Thief.
That's the name of the book Michael Finkel wrote.
He is not an art thief.
And also an article from The New Yorker written by a writer named Catherine Schultz on this
topic and the rest of the sources are in our show notes.
So we'll talk about Stefan first.
He's born on October 1st, 1971.
So he's a year younger than me.
Oh.
He's an only child raised in the Alsace region of France.
I don't know if Alsace is the way you pronounce it,
but we'll see what happens.
Let the French come after me.
I don't care.
In the Alsace region of northeastern France,
near the French-Swiss border.
So as I said, he grew up wealthy.
His father was a sales executive
at a company in Switzerland.
His mother was a nurse.
He spent summers boating on Lake Geneva,
winter skiing in the Swiss Alps.
Oh my God.
The life, the life.
And of course, his house is filled
with the finest antique furniture, priceless works
of art that his father collects.
And getting salt burn because I just started watching that.
Yeah.
Did you watch that?
Yeah.
And I'm like thinking about because I just yeah, I just saw the tour of the house and
it's like what in the fuck?
Isn't that so beautifully directed that movie?
Like it's so great.
Yeah, I haven't finished it, but I'm excited.
Yeah. And that really must be quite something to grow up in a house where you are surrounded
by the most beautiful things people ever made in all time. And like when they walked through
that one room and there's like old, you know, classic expensive portraits and he's like
ancestor, ancestor. It's like those portraits that are worth millions,
that's your fucking great uncle.
I mean, I can't even.
It's your relative.
Right.
Aunt Carol, Uncle Martin, look at him.
Can you imagine?
My friend Adam has a portrait like that
and it's his like great, great, maybe great grandmother.
And it is such an amazing,
I'm like, this is the greatest painting I've ever seen maybe great grandmother. And it is such an amazing,
I'm like, this is the greatest painting I've ever seen
because it's a gold frame, all black.
She's wearing black.
She looks furious.
She looks like a Puritan.
And it is like hilarious, but also incredibly scary.
She's a goth.
She's an original goth.
She's like an, she's what the goths are gothing about.
She's a physical. So she invaded the goth. She's like an original, she's what the goths are gothing about. She's a physical. So she invaded the Goths. Okay. So for Stefan, art is one of the highlights
of his childhood. He's infatuated with beautiful objects. Unlike everybody else who hates beautiful
objects. It's like a set point for him at an early age where he really, it was his passion
and he really did love art.
And also because of that, you know,
rich people have it bad too, everybody.
Cause it sounds like he's got some, what's the word?
Privilege.
Yeah, but also like that things belong to me
no matter what.
Entitlement.
Entitlement.
Oh, hell yes.
You know?
This is a story of entitlement, I think.
Yeah, for sure.
But he also, his parents expect they want him
to go to college and be a lawyer.
He's really, really smart, but he doesn't like school.
He is seriously introverted.
He has virtually no social life.
Even though when he was boating and skiing
all through his childhood, he usually was alone.
Oh, he was like crying while he was boating and skiing.
That's so sad.
Just the saddest little skier making pizza
with his skis and like trying to, you know.
He doesn't like, he is one of those kind of,
maybe deep down he was like a frustrated artist himself,
but he had a hard time like understanding
or getting along with other kids.
It was like a mismatch for him. He didn't like sports.
He didn't like video games. He didn't go to parties.
He had a little bit of a temper.
So it was kind of, I think, maybe like you're saying, there's a chance it was like,
why isn't he was an only child of rich people?
So that's that can't be not easy.
Not great for the personality and for the flexibility.
So he basically all he wants to spend all of his time in museums Not easy. Not easy. Yeah. Not great for the personality and for the flexibility. Definitely.
So he basically all he wants to spend all of his time in museums and exploring archaeological
sites which apparently there are a bunch of in the area that he grew up in near the French-Swiss
border.
So ultimately, Stéphane winds up dropping out of college after just a few years and
then I wrote in all caps, no shame in that.
Hey. Hey, been there.
Been there, are that.
Some of us have done it.
And more no shame, moves back in with his parents.
Sure.
He gets a job working as a security guard
at the historical museum of Moll House,
where he studies exactly how museum security works.
And he learns a couple key things.
One of them is guards tend to focus more on
the patrons visiting the museum and less on the art. So they don't necessarily know exactly
what pieces are on display. They're just watching people. Also the museum security cameras at
that time were sometimes fake. So if there were visible wires, he put it together that
that probably meant they were real. But if there were just like, he put it together that that probably meant they were real.
But if there were just like a camera sitting up there,
there was a chance it was fake.
Same with when I ex worked for Bed Bath and Beyond,
those were fake cameras too.
You know what's not fake cameras?
Target, everyone says that's like,
that was like a TikTok going around where it's like,
do not steal from Target ever.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Whew.
So on the last day of his security job
at the Historical Museum of Mollhals,
Siphon steals a 1,500-year-old
Merovingian belt buckle.
Fuck.
And is like, talk to you later.
And no one notices that it's gone
in any kind of timely way.
So like...
Something small, that's smart.
Yep. Nothing comes of it, essentially.
Yeah. But then in his personal life, everything changes when he turns 22
and his parents get a divorce.
It's a very contentious and traumatic divorce.
And when his dad leaves, the worst part for Stefan was his dad took his entire art collection with him.
Ooh, okay.
So now he lives with his mother on her nurse's salary, and his mother, Mirai is her name,
they're forced to downsize from a big, beautiful house full of fine art to a small apartment with IKEA furniture. And so that of course, clearly for him, a true estate
and someone who that really matters to
makes it all the harder, hard enough just as it is.
Parents getting divorced, things splitting up like that.
I'm sorry, IKEA has art though.
They sure do.
Do you want three white horses running through a puddle?
You got it.
The skyline of New York at sunset.
Hell yes, they got it.
A zoom in on a leaf.
So actually you're looking at the pattern of a leaf,
but you're also looking at the pattern of the world.
Ikea.
Okay, back to this.
Sorry, yeah, go.
Everything in his life is falling apart.
And that's when he meets a young woman named Anne-Katharine Klein-Klaus,
and suddenly, Stephane has a reason to be happy again.
The two of them share a lot of the same interests.
They both love archeology.
They both love avoiding other people.
They both love art museums.
And later, Stephane will say that he, quote,
loved her right away.
Yeah. So, soon after they get together, she moves in with
him at his mother's house in the town of Mullhouse, France, where they live, which to me does not sound
like a French town in the least. Mullhouse? No. It's probably pronounced differently. Yeah. But
that sounds like a reject character from The Simpsons where it's like, no, he can't be in it anymore.
Nobody likes that kid. You know, Moll House Canada. You never heard of it?
Moll House's cousin Moll House is in another episode and I don't like it.
It's just a couple of months after she moves in that they decide to visit the museum in Tan,
then they decide together to steal that flintlock pistol. Okay.
But this last minute couples art heist will not be their last.
So about a year later in February of 1995, the two of them attempt another art theft
during a visit to a small use museum in the Alsatian mountains.
And this time, the object of Stefan's desire is, get this, one of the easier things to steal. Oh no, what?
A medieval crossbow.
It's not just a medieval crossbow, like behind some glass, whatever.
It's hanging from the ceiling of the exhibition room by a wire.
Buddy, grab a relief or something.
Like, come on.
He's like, no, that's not,
cause he's, and he will say this later,
he really does, he like follows his heart.
He goes around and waits until something really strikes him.
He doesn't just try to steal whatever.
I love the idea of him carrying it out,
being like, oh no, I brought this in.
This is my crossroad that I brought in with me.
Yeah, yeah, I brought, I thought it was crossbow day
at the museum, my mistake.
I'll come back in April.
Okay.
How's he gonna do it?
I kind of love her supporting him though, to be honest.
I do too.
Here's the thing.
It's hard to find people that you actually really
get along with in this world.
And when you do find things that kind of light both of you
up at the same time.
But you thought were you like weird quirks of yours
and no one like you had to keep to yourself.
Yep. For sure.
And instead you're like, I want this because I'm a greedy little bad boy rich kid that has had his
heart broken by art. And she's like, I see you, I understand you and I support you.
Yeah.
Take what you want.
Yeah, kind of.
He makes her be go be the lookout.
Okay.
And then he goes, there's a chair on the other end of this medieval
room. Right? And the only way he can figure out how to get up to get his crossbow is by going over
and dragging the chair. The medieval chair? Yes. Dragging it across the room under the crossbow,
right? The length of the entire hallway, it says. He stands on it, unhooks the crossbow from the wire,
stuffs the crossbow under his jacket,
and then the couple walk out.
The high they must have felt at dinner that night,
like your heart would still be racing hours later.
The makeout sesh that they had.
Unreal.
How much hotter does that guy look
once he's stolen a crossbow off the ceiling?
A medieval crossbow even.
That's a high quality man.
He can steal all the weaponry.
That's an apocalypse like husband, you know?
Yes.
Like he can take care of shit in the apocalypse.
There's a golden retriever husband,
then there's your apocalypse medieval warrior husband
that you're looking for these days.
Okay, so they get away with that.
The sex is incredible.
A month later in March of 1995,
they take a trip to the castle of Gruyere.
In parentheses in red, Jay put pronounced like the cheese.
Thank you.
Thanks Jay.
Also, I wanna go there immediately
and start eating the castle made out of Gruyere in my
mind.
I could go look out the window and just take a bite out of the window.
So it's a heritage center and it's a museum in Switzerland.
And as they are walking through it, Stefan sees an 18th century painting of a woman by
an artist named Christian Wilhelm Ernst Diedrich of Germany.
And he loves this painting. So once again, on Catherine goes to be the lookout.
Stefan pulls out his Swiss army knife and he begins to pull the nails from the picture frame one by one
until he can slip the painting out of the frame and down the back of his pants.
Ew. Well, it's in his waistband. It doesn't and down the back of his pants. Ew.
Well, it's in his waistband.
It doesn't go all the way under the butt.
It's just, it's held in his waistband,
kind of like, you know, a little fanny pack.
Yeah.
No one sees them do it.
No one stops them.
They walk out real calm and collected.
The perfect cover.
When you're white and look rich,
you can just fucking get away with anything.
And are a couple.
Oh, a couple's a good cover for sure. Right.
They're just like, not those two innocent young lovers. Yeah.
Thus begins the art heist date night practice that they get super into.
Mm hmm. Venturing out to museums or art shows
nearly every single week to steal a new prize possession.
Oh, my God. I'm like excited for some reason.
I know, right?
It's terrible. Don't do that. But it's like...
It's bad and they're being bad and wrong,
but there's something about the like,
we're doing it as a team that's very appealing and cute.
And we're like in our early twenties and we're making dumb big,
like make the biggest mistake you can then.
Completely.
Also this is exactly in the pocket of time
where it's like, you know he made her a mixtape.
You know.
Dinosaur Jr. is on that shit.
Fucking The Cure.
Oh my, every Cure song is like their song for sure.
However far away, I will always love you.
Okay, so. Yeah. I will always love you.
Okay, so. Yeah.
So the stolen art starts piling up so high
in their little attic apartment
that they can barely keep track of all their new treasure.
And the more he steals, the better he gets at stealing.
So how does he get away with it for so long?
Because he does, he basically follows a couple rules
that he makes up for himself.
And basically the overall rule is keep it simple.
Don't make elaborate plans like you're in the movies
because the more obvious you are,
the more risk you draw to yourself.
So in Stephane's opinion, the best thefts
are the ones that happen right under everyone's noses
and kind of like improvisationally.
So basically he and Anne Katarin
always go to the museums around lunchtime.
They just go up and buy their tickets,
all normal and natural,
because he realized it's less crowded at lunchtime.
Like people come in the morning and leave for lunch
or come after lunch.
So it's less crowded
and the security guards are switching shifts.
Oh.
So it thins out the security staff and gets rid of witnesses.
Yeah.
And the only tools Stefan ever brings with him are his Swiss Army knife,
and then if it's cold enough to justify it, a big coat to hide the art in.
Mm-hmm.
Also, he never goes in with a plan to steal anything in particular.
Like I said, he waits until he sees something that he that catches his eye.
Then he sees if he can formulate a plan based on how many security guards are around, where
the item is being displayed, where any cameras might be, how many patrons flowing in and out
of the exhibit.
And he basically tells himself if he truly loves this piece,
like enough so that he's the one that should have it,
that should give him the courage necessary
to pull off the theft in plain sight without getting caught.
In addition to loving the piece,
Stefan aims for items that are on the smaller side
so he can smuggle it out of the museum easily.
So sculptures and other 3D objects can be no more
than the size of a brick.
And then the painting should only ever be about a foot
by a foot in size.
He believes it's important for him to remain patient
and never like try to cut the painting out of the frame
because damaging the art itself in order to steal it
is an insult to the artwork.
He has to either be able to remove the painting
from its frame in full and not fold it or roll it,
or he's not gonna take it.
So he has a lot of interior kind of respect-based rules
because he loves the art so much.
So I think that's at least one little check
in his pro side for that part.
It's kind of like beautiful in that way of like,
it really is for the art for him.
Yeah, he's not trying to resell it for the highest value.
It's like, he wants these beautiful things.
Yeah, he just wants to have it.
Yeah.
He wants to have his childhood back.
Just go to therapy.
Men will steal art from every museum in Switzerland and France before they'll go to therapy.
On Catherine, basically, when she's the lookout, she does a tiny little cough if somebody's
coming while he's in the actual act of stealing.
So that's how he knows.
So when he starts to go for it, he just goes for it.
He unhooks it from the frame
or puts it off the ceiling or whatever.
He gets it, he hides it,
and then the couple walks calmly out of the museum.
They go to their car.
They always park in the museum parking lot
or nearby parking like where anybody else would park.
And they drive away at or below the speed limit always.
Stephon knows that no matter how smooth his approach
at stealing the item was,
the security response will always be fast.
So he knows they have to get out of there fast
and also calmly so as not to attract unwanted attention.
So they have kind of really kind of mastered this obviously, because they just he's
not getting caught as they're doing it. Yeah. And last but not least, Stefan never ever sells the
artwork he steals ever. That's not just how most thieves get caught. But to Stefan, it goes
completely against the whole point of stealing art. He wants to have it so he can look at it. As someone who collects dumb old stuff,
because it makes me happy to look at my collection
of Ray Bradbury books from the fucking 70s or whatever,
I get that.
Hell yeah.
Any little thing I see, whether it's at a vintage store
or in a thrift store or
like at a yard sale, if it actually reminds you of something from your
childhood that matters to you, that's an antique, that's a treasure.
Or brings you a little bit of joy every time you look at it.
Yeah, that's the point.
Yeah.
My shit just costs $10.
It's not in a fucking museum.
Yeah, but it should be.
And that shouldn't it be?
Okay, so sticking to these strategies pays off so well that Stefan starts stealing more and more,
and by February of 1997, he steals a 10-inch tall 400-year-old ivory statuette of Adam and Eve,
ironically the perfect symbol for his inability
to resist temptation.
And he steals it from the Rubens House Museum
in Antwerp, Belgium.
So the next weekend, they head over to Zurich
for an art fair and Stefan steals a silver and gold
16th century goblet.
Wow.
He has pretty fancy taste.
So soon after that, he's never like, ooh, this matchbook.
I swear to God, the way Stefan feels
about like 16th century goblets is honestly how I feel
about a nicely designed matchbook
at the front of a restaurant when you're leaving.
Karen, how am I just figuring this out or finding this out?
I feel like I'm just finding this out
through the self-discovery podcasts allow.
You love a matchbook. It doesn't have to be old. It's just like when you're leaving a restaurant.
Do you like it better when they're in the little box that you can take out a single match
rather than a matchbook? Right?
Well, it feels like I don't see match books as much as the boxes anymore. And it feels like people
I have this a match box from the restaurant Kismet.
Oh yeah. It's a beautiful little design. So it's like you have a tiny piece of art.
Okay. But then if you want to light a candle, look no further.
Every time I see a bowl of those that go Georgia, you don't need more matches.
Because I always end up just throwing away matches at the bottom of my purse because I needed them.
But then doesn't your little baby hand go grab two anyway?
Cause it's free.
No, I'm like, you don't need them.
Stop it.
You don't need them.
But now I'm going to do it.
You do need them.
Okay. So after he steals the goblet,
he goes to the art fair in Holland.
He swipes two more items from two different booths.
One, he steals a 1620 painting of some swans in a lake.
I would love to look at that. That would be kind of great.
I mean, God.
He steals that while the booth vendor eats his lunch.
Then he goes over and finds a 17th century painting
of the sea and he steals that right out from
under that vendor's nose.
I don't love stealing from individual people
who probably aren't, hopefully are insured,
but maybe not. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah, because it's not a museum. It's not like
this was donated by this billionaire or whatever. Yeah. And it's fucking insured up the butt,
you know? Right. So yeah. And also, yeah, because now we're just getting into straight up shoplifting
stuff you like. Right. Right. Exactly. But I think it this I think these habits at an art fair,
such up close and personal places,
it's just his daring is increasing with his success
because he's just not getting caught.
So he thinks he can do it.
The couple take a break for a few weeks
before they head to Belgium,
which is Stephane's favorite place to steal art.
He says that the city attracts him like a lover.
And so there in Belgium,
he steals a still life painting by Jan van Kessel,
the elder, one of your favorite painters, Georgia.
Absolutely.
Then they head off to Paris to steal Renaissance paintings.
They commit a small heist in Holland
and two more in Belgium.
It's a spree at this point.
And each time they steal, Stéphane and Anne Catarin make a clean getaway, but the missing
artwork doesn't go unnoticed.
Of course, every theft is reported to police.
Police attempt to piece together the puzzle of who is stealing from museums and how the sheer volume of these thefts suggests to police
that either one of two things is going on,
the cases are unrelated and just basically art theft crimes
are trending upward right now,
or there's a large organized network of thieves
who are working together to heist it up from museums.
That's all they can imagine, which is kind of reasonable
because it doesn't make sense why these two people
can just walk into museums and steal over and over.
Also, they must have some money
if they're traveling like that, right?
She's like a nurse's aide.
So he gets money from his mother.
She brings the paycheck into the relationship.
He does not work. He literally sits in their apartment and like looks at his art.
Okay, well.
Uh huh. Okay. So as police gather witness testimonies, they ask witnesses to describe
anyone suspicious that they saw on the day of the theft in either the museum or art fair,
wherever they are. And as they do this, they start to realize no one is sure about who or what they saw.
The descriptions of potential witnesses provide basically rough sketches at best.
And at one point, police find video footage from a French museum that captures Stephane in the act of stealing,
but the video is so grainy that it does not help them make an actual identification.
At one point, police do suspect that it's a help them make an actual identification. At one point,
police do suspect that it's a male and female couple working together, but for
some reason they guess that the couple's age is much older than the two, so
nothing comes of it. They get no leads out of that. And this whole time the
police in all these jurisdictions are relying on London's art loss register,
which is the biggest,
most reliable database for stolen art from all across the world.
And according to the register,
over 99% of art thieves steal with the intent to sell and make money.
It's like slightly less than a hundred percent. So it's like, yeah,
that makes sense.
That other 1% like gives it away as gifts, probably.
Yeah, that's the people with the Robin Hood complexes
who are just trying to impress Jesus.
So the police keep their eyes on the art market
waiting to see if any of these many stolen pieces come up
and they never do.
So it's like they just, they have nowhere to go.
So meanwhile, upstairs at his mother's house, Stefan and Anne-Katharine
share the small attic apartment, and it's of course a very small and modest space for them to
live in, but the decor is not. I'm sure. They're lining every inch of the walls, are stolen
masterpieces, heisted from museums all over Europe.
So on this wall over here, there's Dutch master,
Adrian van Oostraad and France's Francois Boucher
and Germany's Albrecht Durer.
All of these names would super impress art students
and people who work at museums.
The shelves are stacked with goblets, platters,
vases and more, all of them made
usually out of precious metals. Closets are filled with antique weapons and instruments
and books. Items like gilded tea sets and Napoleon's old gold snuff box are piling up
on the furniture. He took a tea set out of a museum.
This is bigger than that. This is like bigger than like, this is bigger than that.
This is some like kleptomania.
Oh yes, yeah, yeah.
It's bigger than art appreciation.
Yeah, yeah.
Yes, agreed.
No, I bet it's now a bit of an addiction.
It's like an adrenaline addiction.
It's like, it's kind of sexy.
It's do you dare me?
Can I do this?
I'm not who you think I am. It's, I mean, it is, you dare me? Can I do this? I'm not who you think I am.
It's, I mean, it is, it is sexy.
You can't deny it.
Who's he played by though?
Daniel, what's his name?
Who was 007 once?
You know who I'm picturing is Wesley
from A Princess Bride.
Oh, Carrie Elwes.
Yeah.
But yes, that's a really good one
because he's like kind of dreamy, romantic,
but then he also is like, are you evil?
Right, I also know a limerick or two.
I don't know why I keep going back to that.
Okay.
There was a young lady from something that rhymes with cunt.
That's basically every limerick.
But you were saying your suggestion is Daniel Craig
for this, for Stephane's part.
That's right.
No, but it was Princess Bride.
Oh, Carrie Elwes is you want that one.
Yeah.
Carrie Elwes is your suggestion for this casting.
Here's mine.
And I don't know, this is a British actor.
His name is Ben Wishaw.
He's the voice of Paddington,
and he's been in a million things.
Oh wait, I'll show you a picture.
Show me a pic.
I'm a brunette.
Yes, and he's very, very tall and skinny.
Yeah, he could sneak out of the museum.
Very sensitive.
He would totally wear like a long trench coat,
and you wouldn't go,
why is that guy wearing a long trench coat?
You'd be like, was he born in that trench coat?
He just has the look on his face.
He's one of those people where it's like,
mysterious.
I love Vermeer so much.
I'm gonna risk it all.
Like if he apologized to you, you'd be like, okay.
That's fine.
I don't care.
Let's steal some more.
What's his name?
That's Ben some more. What's his name?
That's Ben Wishaw.
Okay.
I'm gonna really quickly re-recommend his TV show
from 2022.
It's called, This Is Going to Hurt.
And he plays an emergency room doctor
that's training residents.
And it's so good.
It's really incredible, kind of realistic,
like a very smart, funny, sad kind of emergency room drama
from England.
Amen.
Okay, let's get back to True Crime.
So he's got all this shit in his attic apartment
at his mom's house,
and including Napoleon's old gold
snuff box, he starts to call it or he describes it as his
Alibaba's cave. So it's just filled with treasure. The total
value of these stolen goods is well into the millions. And in a
short amount of time, it climbs into the billions.
That's a big leap. Yeah. Right there. The most valuable item in his collection
is a painting by one Lucas Cronaw, the elder,
called Sibel, Princess of Cleves.
And that painting is worth an estimated five million pounds
over six million US dollars in 1997,
which would be how many US dollars in today's money? Okay, six million US dollars in 1997, which would be how many US dollars in today's money?
Okay, 6 million US dollars in 1997.
Today, 1.2 billion.
Oh, no, it's only 11 million.
Oh, ew.
Sorry.
Sorry how low that number is.
I don't really know how numbers works,
like beyond that, so I don't know. Neither does Stefan, like beyond that. I don't know.
Neither does Stefan.
You both of you, you don't care.
You're not about that.
You're not about monetary value.
That's for the great unwashed.
You and him are more interested in the artist's biographies, their mentors, their inspirations,
their techniques, their styles.
So after Stefan steals a piece, he spends hours researching
its background. He's also big into research himself.
With no internet probably. So that's kind of like...
Right. It's late nineties. He reads books. Imagine. He goes into the background. He familiarizes
himself with the work in its historical context. He's clearly unemployed, so he has the time to do all of this.
Whether it's his motivation for stealing
or the way he justifies his stealing or both,
Stefan is genuinely passionate about art.
His mother, Mireille, meanwhile,
has no idea what is going on
just above her head in her own house.
The couple leaves their attic apartment locked.
They do not have visitors and Murray does not go upstairs.
Every night when the three of them eat dinner together,
Murray is totally oblivious to the fact that just
in this second level of her own house,
there are what will end up being billions of dollars
worth of stolen art piling up.
Jesus.
So, as successful a thief as Stefan has been, he has had some close calls.
The first one had nothing to do with actual theft.
It happens afterwards when they're walking back to their car and they find a cop writing
them a ticket.
And instead of his old rule of laying low and being low-key, he actually argues
with the police officer and he ends up talking his way out of this ticket all while carrying
pieces of a 16th century wooden altarpiece in his waistband under his jacket.
Oh my God.
So brazen, is he getting brazen?
Is he getting confident?
Is he turning into a different person
like Jim Carrey's the mask?
That's what it seems like.
And he's also a dude in his early 20s
that's just fucking getting away with crime.
So he obviously feels immortal.
It's like audacity on tap is what's happening right now.
Yeah, it's that entitlement issue
that you mentioned earlier.
It's become big now.
He's arguing with cops
with stolen shit in his pants. The second close call is far more threatening. They're
on a visit to an art gallery in Lucerne, Switzerland in 1997, and the two are disappointed to find
they are the only people in this art gallery. So of course, Anne Catherine begs Stefan not
to steal anything that day.
They're far too exposed.
Plus there is a police station directly across the street.
But what am I about to tell you right now?
He did it anyway.
Yep, cause he knows best and he can't help it.
So he swipes a painting by Dutch painter,
Willem van Ielst, but it's too warm outside for him to be wearing a jacket.
So he simply tucks the painting under his arm
and starts to walk out of the museum.
Bro, let one go.
Well, it's like, are we at the tipping point
where you can't handle this anymore?
You can't handle your own success.
You can't actually handle this much power.
It is intoxicating.
And now you're just high on your own supply.
Yeah, and she doesn't trust you anymore.
And like that's...
Yeah, you're not being a team player.
If she doesn't get to have any input
about when you should or shouldn't do something,
then fuck you, you're like on your own.
You will get no small cough from me, sir.
But for the first time in his art high's career,
an art gallery actually stops him
because he has a painting under his arm walking out.
And that gallery worker drags the couple
across the street to the police station.
They're held questioned, fingerprinted.
They both spend the night in jail.
But the next day they actually somehow convince the cops
that this was their first time stealing anything
and that they will never do it again.
They walk away with a slap on the wrist.
What?
For stealing from an art gallery.
Yeah.
And also stealing like an old,
Yeah.
If it's a Dutch painter that's in a museum,
that's an important painting.
You didn't steal a fucking Maybelline lip tint.
Like Georgia did.
Like I did when I was a juvenile delinquent.
Yeah, it's a different class.
Yeah, it's different.
And here's how you know it's different.
You're high as a kite doing it.
That's the difference.
Wait, me or him?
Oh, I meant him, but whoever it applies to.
Yeah.
I wanna include everybody.
However you get your stealing high.
So they get out, you know, they know they lucked out. So on their ride home, they promise each
other they will never steal in Switzerland ever again. Right? They can't quit cold Turkey at this
point. So it's around this time that the relationship begins to deteriorate.
As she approaches her 30s, Ankaterin's priorities start to shift. She wants obviously to socialize
more. She wants to start a family. She would like to pursue something greater in life than stealing.
Yeah. And any of those things would be difficult to do with the way that they have to live because
they're actually on the run and hiding from the law, basically. But whereas she feels stifled, he feels invincible.
He's gotten away with so much theft that it's hard for him not to see himself as superhuman,
of course. So the two fight more and more and Stefan just decides to strike out on his
own. So he starts doing larger heists alone,
including literally lifting 150 pound wooden carving
of the Madonna and child from a local church
in broad daylight.
Jesus, literally.
He doesn't give a fuck at this point.
And men who think they're invincible are dangerous.
Yeah, especially around art.
What? The only thing keeping him safe is the lack of witnesses in this situation, which was
just pure chance.
Anne Catherine wants the thieving to stop, but the best she can get out of him is a promise
that he will wear surgical gloves while he's stealing so he doesn't leave fingerprints,
but she has to steal them from her work to give them give them to him, so that he'll wear them.
So it's great, it's a great situation.
They had never worried before about leaving fingerprints
because they'd never been arrested before.
So now that they were actually in the system,
they would be able to be found
if they were to be arrested again.
Of course, Stefan can't keep this promise.
On November 19th, 2001, he comes back from a thieving trip
at the Richard Wagner Museum near Lucerne, Switzerland,
where they promised not to steal anymore.
And he comes back with a 16th century bugle horn.
But they already have one.
What the fuck? So on Catherine's pissed, because she's like, what are you doing?
You didn't even need this one.
You're now doubling up on 16th century bugles.
You're not starting a ska band.
You need to like, chill.
Stop it.
Also, yeah, you've gone far past loving art.
Also, he didn't wear the gloves.
So there's no way his fingerprints weren't left on the display case where he stole this from. You've gone far past loving art. Also, he didn't wear the gloves.
So there's no way his fingerprints weren't left
on the display case where he stole this from.
So the next day, which is November 20th, 2001,
the two of them drive back out to the Richard Wagner,
I bet it's Richard Wagner Museum, but I'm saying Wagner,
to go erase those fingerprints,
which I bet you was like a final straw argument
that she made him do, right?
Because the plan was that she's gonna go in alone
and wipe away the fingerprints with a rag
and some rubbing alcohol because he would be recognized
since he was there alone the day that the thing went missing.
Oh, honey.
She begs him to wait in the car.
Of course he refuses, insisting that he's going to walk around the grounds.
Oh, dude.
But what he does like a weird addict is she goes in to clean up and he stands outside
and watches her clean up through a window.
But a man walking his dog sees this dude staring into the museum window and goes,
that's weird. And so he goes inside to tell an employee he thinks there's some strange
behavior going on outside. Yes. Thank you, sir. Oh, cause guess what? This sir is a journalist
who has recently himself read about the stolen 16th century bugle. He's like, and this is where
it was stolen from. And here's this guy acting weird. I'm going in, I'm going to tell.
Amazing.
So finally, a hero.
Never mind your own business.
Just fucking.
Yeah, exactly.
Get in there.
Well, especially if you're a journalist,
it's your job to not mind your own business.
True, true.
You can handle it.
He can handle the power.
Unpronounced to Stefan, now the man is inside the museum
telling the workers and security or whatever about this suspicious behavior.
An employee looks out the window, recognizes Stefan from the day before.
Not only did he fail to use gloves when he stole the bugle, but he stole it when he was one of three people in the museum that day.
All the old rules are out the window with this guy at this point. So Anne Catherine
overhears these two men talking about Stephane looking through the window and acting weird.
And hey, wasn't yesterday the day that the bugle was stolen. She panics. She walks out of the museum
at much faster pace than she normally would. She's trying to get out there and warn him. But as she walks outside, a police car pulls up behind Stefan and they
place him under arrest.
She though was smart enough.
And please keep this in mind for your, all of your future heists and endeavors.
She had the car keys.
So he gets arrested and she basically melts into the background, turns around,
gets into the car and drives home.
And she's like, and that's that for me. Stephane's arrested, he is now in custody.
And he tells police this is just a one-time theft.
He doesn't have a lot of money.
And he just wanted to get his mother
a nice gift for Christmas.
So he stole her a 16th century bugle horn.
Of course, but the problem is the police run his prints.
They find he's been arrested for stealing art once before.
And of course they start to wonder how many times he's actually stolen from
museums in Switzerland or anywhere for that matter.
So Stefan remains in a Swiss jail cell for the next few weeks while the Swiss
police obtain an international search warrant so that they can go search his mother's house.
Oh dear.
By mid-December, the Swiss and French police knock on Mirai's door. They hand her the international search warrant.
She lets them inside. They climb the stairs up to the attic apartment, but when they unlock the door, there's nothing inside.
Oh girl, fucking head shit.
The paintings, books, statues, weapons,
goblets, bugle horns, double bugle horns, all gone.
The police are absolutely stumped.
Now maybe they think Stéphane's telling the truth.
He really is just a small time thief.
But then a few days later, a passerby is going on a walk
along a remote section of the Rhône-Rhin canal,
which is near Moll House, France, and that passerby spots something shimmering in the water.
How exciting. I would be so excited.
What's that shimmering?
So he grabs a rake, he digs the object out, and it is a gold chalice.
Come on, Mudlarker, like the best moment of your life.
This is a dream moment.
This man or woman, I think it's a man, got to have, is like, is this the Holy Grail here
in the Rhône Rhône?
So he keeps digging and the more he keeps digging in this canal, the more treasure turns
up.
He finds a bejeweled dagger.
He finds silver platters.
He finds all kinds of stuff.
He reports it to the police. They get out there, they dredge the canal and a slew of
stolen museum pieces are found from all across Europe.
She just fucking, you put that into the water?
Well, yes and. The police photograph everything that they find in the canal.
They return to Stefan's jail cell in early January 2002 and they show him a picture of
a medal he once stole telling him they know he stole it and that if he confesses they
will let him go.
Stefan at this point, of course, he's been interrogated for hours.
He's been in jail for weeks.
He's completely broken from his time behind bars.
This is not a kind of life that he can live in any way.
So it doesn't take long for him to confess.
With each photo that they put down of each stolen item, he confesses to his crimes.
But then he notices in one of the pictures that there's rust on one of the items and
he asks the officers what happened.
They tell him the items were recovered from the canal.
And then he pieces together basically what must have happened.
So the exact details can't be confirmed, but Stefan believes that things must have
gone like this after his arrest.
Anne Katarijn drove straight to his mother's house.
She spilled all the secrets about stealing the art
to his mother.
So Mariah, understandably angry and disappointed,
still she doesn't want to see her son go to prison
for theft.
So in an effort to save him,
she gathers up everything up in that apartment,
artwork, chalices, crossbows, everything,
and she destroys as much of it as she can.
No, no.
Priceless paintings, centuries old artworks,
one of a kind items that can never be duplicated
are shredded and set on fire.
Honey.
That's the problem with boy moms.
They just go crazy. They love those
boys so much. Extreme. They make extreme decisions because they have extreme people. Hashtag what
are you even doing right now burning that Vermeer in the name of your lazy son? Oh my
God. Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, it's tough.
It was this part of the story that made me realize how much I care about art.
Because I was like, wait, what? That's so sad.
It's this part of the story that makes me just sure that I don't want kids.
Oh god.
Can you imagine?
You're standing around at bonfire of the most important historical items
where you're like, shit, he did it again.
What's the solution here?
You know what?
You know what?
Yeah, that's right, you're on restriction.
Okay, so, but she can't destroy everything,
so she takes everything that she can't burn
or shred or whatever and throws it into the canal. So that's why it's all the things that are made of metal and,
you know, insanely priceless, beautiful things. It's clear that Stefan is going down for his
crimes. He is so preoccupied with the loss of his art collection that he doesn't care
about his impending punishment. Police divers are actually able to save most of the art
that's dumped in the canal,
although most of it does have water damage.
Although, you know, art that's survived
for like 1500 years, it's like, that's okay.
It's made so well, it's doing good.
It gives a character.
I mean, it's been through something.
Aside from the works dumped in the canal, there are at least 60 other pieces, mostly paintings
that are never recovered.
Oh my God.
Honey.
They're all presumed destroyed.
Stefan is so devastated by the loss of the art that he actually attempts to kill himself
and is put on suicide watch.
So it's not like put on personality thing.
This is a truth about him as a person.
This is, she truly did it all for the love of the art
and to have the art.
But it's also his fault that they're all now destroyed.
Yeah, that's tough.
That's irony, baby.
Yeah, it is.
So he is first tried in Switzerland
where he's found guilty.
Then he's extradited to France where he's found guilty, then he's extradited to
France where he's found guilty again.
He spends two years in prison in each country for a total of four years.
He's released in 2005 at the age of 33.
I know.
That's all he got?
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
So Mariah admits to destroying the stolen art, although she claims she had no idea what
it was worth.
But here's the thing, I know what she's saying, right?
And she couldn't have truly known the exact number.
But when you're standing in front
of a Dutch master's painting, you can see the value.
That's what art is, is like, you can see it.
That's simple.
If you lit it on fire to hide the fact that he stole it,
it means you know that it was, you know.
But it was a big deal.
Big deal, yeah.
So it's not just like, oh shit, this stuff from Ikea,
I better light it on fire, you know.
Yeah.
No.
Although I'd never light that three horse painting
on fire from Ikea.
So for her part in the destruction of the art,
Mariah gets a three year sentence,
but she serves 18 months.
Wow.
But she gets almost as long as the person responsible.
Yeah.
Which is, hey, let's take a look at that, France.
Ann Catarane gets lucky.
She spends one night in jail,
but as Stephane's accomplice, he never, and this is also very
beautiful I think for this story, he never implicates her in any of these crimes during
the trials.
He takes all the blame on himself and it's only after the trials are over that he reveals
or that he claims that she was his lookout.
So he never busts her.
I mean, the bar is so low for men these days.
Like, don't.
He didn't testify against me, you guys.
I'm gonna text him.
I think I'm just gonna text him
and see if he testified against me.
And then I'm gonna call it from there.
When all is said and done,
Stefan Breitwieser has stolen roughly 300 works of art
Breitwieser has stolen roughly 300 works of art from 200 different museums between 1994 and 2001.
The total value of everything he's stolen during this time is estimated to be between 1.5 and 1.9 billion USDs. One of the conditions of his release in 2005 is that he is not allowed to enter a museum
or an art gallery ever again.
How do you enforce it?
It's impossible.
That's the good faith.
This picture up in the back.
Like he bounced a check.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
So he goes by this guideline.
He listens for a little while,
but not only does he go back to visiting museums,
he gets right back to stealing art
the first time he lays eyes on something that he loves.
It starts with a theft from an art gallery in Belgium.
It ends with a 2011 police raid on his home once again,
resulting in the recovery of 30 stolen pieces of art.
He is put on trial again,
and in 2013, he's given a three year sentence.
He's released in 2016,
he's promptly put up back on police radar
when they find him trying to sell
a stolen antique paperweight on eBay.
So now he's actually selling it.
So the police keep tabs on him until they have enough
evidence to issue another raid on his home. This time they find Roman coins stolen from an
archeology museum and 163,000 euros stashed in buckets. The perfect place to put euros.
He's arrested again in February, 2019. He's tried in March of 2023.
Hey. Last month. Hi. Nope. This is 2024 right now where we're in. He's arrested again in February, 2019. He's tried in March of 2023.
Hey.
Last month.
Hi. Nope.
This is 2024 right now, where we're in.
I'm so sorry.
He's trying, that's horrible news.
God damn it.
He's trying to.
A year ago.
No, no, you got this.
Keep going.
The conviction in my voice, the way I said that.
I want to believe that I know. I want to know that I believe. You better leave that in, keep going. The conviction in my voice, the way I said that. I want to believe that I know.
I want to know that I believe.
You better leave that in, Alejandra.
Fuck.
He's tried in March of 2023, and he's currently on house arrest.
So while Stephane's in prison, he writes a memoir detailing
these thefts from 1994 to 2001.
And also journalist Michael Finkel writes a more comprehensive
biography of Stefan's life entitled The Art Thief. Finkel's book takes a more objective viewpoint
on Stefan's life. Both books make his motivations clear to hold beauty in the palm of his hand and
to be what Stefan remembers fondly as feeling, quote, the master of the world.
Yeah, it's so weird to think that you deserve
to feel that way by stealing other people's shit.
And that is the story of art thief, Stephane Breitwieser.
Wow.
Epic. Yeah.
An epic tale.
An epic tale that when it was pitched to me,
and I feel like Alejandra, did you find this one?
Yeah, I found this one.
Good one.
Good job.
First of all, congratulations.
Because it was like art heists,
and I was like, well, we kind of know
how art heists go, right?
It's like three big paintings,
and Alejandra's like, just you wait.
It's almost like he was a shock lifter,
not a heister.
Yes.
You know?
And it's also like, he took it so he could see it
all the time, but it's like, friend, you could go
to the museum and see it every day if you wanted to.
But for some reason, owning it, you know,
was like the, was part of it.
It's status, it's excitement.
And it is kind of like, it's like saying
this is supposed to be mine.
So I'm gonna make it so it is mine.
I will appreciate this more than anyone else.
So I refuse to let anyone else see it.
I mean.
Or just mine.
It's like that.
Yeah.
Mine. Mine. Mine. Mine.
It's me on TikTok shop. Mine.
Wow. Great fucking job.
Thank you.
Amazing, what were you doing?
Were you art heisting while you were listening to this?
Let us know.
If you are shoplifting while you're listening
to this podcast, George and I would both like you to know,
we joke a lot, but like be careful.
Don't get in trouble for something dumb.
Not worth it, not worth it.
It's way worse for you than it is for like whatever little plan you think you're-
Yeah. You're better off without it.
This is not convincing. I'm not convincing myself as I'm trying to give this talk.
That's what's sad.
Should we do one each do one last, where was I?
And then-
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We'll start this trend. We can do a where was I when I was listening.
What are you even doing right now? What are you even doing right now?
At the end of every episode. I'll go first. Yeah.
I guess when we were talking about like, what do you do when you listen to this podcast? I said,
maybe you're painting your nails. And someone wrote in, I just listened to episode 423 and
dropped my nail polish when Georgia said,
we were painting our nails while listening. And the title is I spilled my nail polish, Georgia.
Love you, ladies. No name.
Oh, sorry.
We'll call them nail polish Jones.
Here's the one I have.
Hi, team forever listener and not first time writer.
You just asked what the hell are we doing while listening.
You promise not to snitch, but I'm okay if you share.
I was assembling an Ikea bed
with my infant napping in the next room.
I like playing with fire.
Kind regards, Krista.
Krista, boy mom.
This is.
And Ikea.
Boy mom.
I don't know if she's a boy mob.
But here's what I love.
This is such a reverse lens backwards.
Like when you guys listen to this podcast,
you're picturing us talking to each other.
But now we get to picture you listening.
Yeah.
I love it.
I do too.
Please let us know what you're even doing right now.
I was gonna try to fold this right into a,
please stay sexy.
Oh, well we should,
because this has been two fucking hours. Oh 2 22 2 2 22 and stay sexy and don't get murdered.
Goodbye. Elvis do you want a cookie?
This has been an Exactly Right production.
Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.
Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle Creighton.
Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.
This episode was mixed by Liana Squillace.
Our researchers are Maren McClashen and Ali Elkin.
Email your hometowns to MyFavoriteMurder at gmail.com.
Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite MurderiteMurder and Twitter at MyFaveMurder.
Goodbye!