Off Menu with Ed Gamble and James Acaster - Ep 230: Nisha Katona
Episode Date: March 6, 2024‘Great British Menu’ judge and Mowgli Street Food restaurateur Nisha Katona has a table booked this week. And it’s a dog-friendly Dream Restaurant.Nisha Katona’s new book ‘Bold: Big Flavour ...Twists to Classic Dishes’ is out now, published by Nourish Books. Buy it here.Find your nearest Mowgli restaurant here.Follow Nisha on Twitter and Instagram @nishakatonaRay Winstone stars in ‘Damsel’ which releases on Netflix from 8th March. Watch it here.Ray Winstone also stars in ‘The Gentlemen’ which releases on Netflix in March. Watch it here.Follow Ray on Instagram @thisisraywinstoneRecorded and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive.Artwork by Paul Gilbey (photography and design).Follow Off Menu on Twitter and Instagram: @offmenuofficial.And go to our website www.offmenupodcast.co.uk for a list of restaurants recommended on the show.Watch Ed and James's YouTube series 'Just Puddings'. Watch here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript
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Welcome to the Off Menu podcast shredding the carrot of conversation shredding the cabbage
of the internet mixing it all up together in the mayonnaise of good times you got yourself a pod slaw oh it's the best pod slaw in town that said gamble my name is
James a caster we are the proprietors of a dream restaurant and every single week
we invite a guest in and we ask them their favorite ever start a main course
dessert side dish and drink not in that order and this, our guest is Nisha Katona. Nisha Katona, a wonderful chef, wonderful broadcaster,
a fellow judge on Great British Menu.
I've had some other friends from his other life.
Yes, one of my other buddies.
She was weird.
She's absolutely brilliant.
I'm a bit jealous.
She runs the Mowgli restaurant chain, which we both love.
Yeah, love it.
So very excited to have Nisha in the studio today.
Also, we have a lot of fun with Nisha on the show
and she's bonkers.
On Great British Menu?
Yes, she's a proper laugh.
Yes, so she's bonkers.
Yeah.
And we already know what you encourage her like.
Yeah.
And, and the Oliver to be fair.
Yeah.
This is the, the fun,
this is everyone on Great British Menu.
This is the final piece of the puzzle.
Apart from like all the brilliant crew and stuff,
and all the chefs who've been on.
Who should we have on from the crew?
We could have Big Chris.
Yeah, I've heard about Big Chris.
Big Chris, the cameraman.
We'll have him on.
If enough people tweet off menu,
asking for Big Chris, if we get a thousand tweets,
a request from Big Chris Chris come on the pod
with Invitemon. Right. A thousand. We're not doing that because we will. We won't get a thousand.
We will, mate. How many people listen to this every week? We're not having Big Chris on the podcast.
Nisha is a brilliant chef. She's a proper laugh. She also writes fantastic cookery books. She's got
30-minute mogulie. She's got meat-free mogulie,
and she has a new book available called Bold.
Bold.
Big flavor twists to classic dishes.
Yes, so looking forward to talking to her about that,
but hopefully she gets to talk about it,
and she doesn't say our secret ingredient.
Yeah, yeah, of course.
If Nisha says a secret ingredient,
an ingredient which we have deemed to be unacceptable,
we will be forced to kick her out of the dream restaurant.
And the secret ingredient this week is kangaroo meat.
Kangaroo meat.
Kangaroo milk.
No, not the hair.
Not the hair, kangaroo hair.
Although I wouldn't like that either.
No.
Never had kangaroo actually, James.
I've not had it.
I don't think I would want it.
No.
And I know that as a meat eater, then that is probably quite hypocritical.
It's been like, oh, that seems like bad.
Yeah. But they just look sort of mythical, don't they?
So, yeah, I just feel a bit pointless to eat the kangaroo.
Yeah. Probably pointless in any of them.
You know what? If it was offered to me, I probably would try it.
But that's a secret ingredient this week anyway.
Yeah, I'd be polite. Yeah.
I'd eat it, but like I wouldn't order it. No. No, thank you. So,
let's hope she doesn't order that. So, let's get on with it. This is the off-menu menu of
Nisha Katona.
Welcome, Nisha, to the Dream Restaurant. I'm very glad to be here. Welcome, Nisha Katono,
to the Dream Restaurant. May it be for you for some time. How amazing to be here. Honestly,
this is a massive deal because this is the podcast that all my kind of cool members
of my family listen to. Yes. And the cool people in my social... Who are they? Who are
the cool people? Okay, in fairness, there's one cool member of my family. And I've got one cool person in my social group.
But they, you know, it is like a cult thing, isn't it?
I mean, they religiously listen to every word of it.
And then they repeat what you said back to me, Adna or Zeme.
Yes, they do, Justice.
So it's a big deal.
Do they make us sound funny?
They, do you know what they do?
It's about the bant, isn't it?
Yes, we say that, don't we?
Yes.
Yeah, googled that before.
Yeah.
Bants.
But I did text you and say, I expect no humor.
Yes.
This is what really worries me.
So, no, it's a massive deal.
So thank you very much for having me on.
Who are the cool people you know that like it?
Okay, there's two.
Shout them out.
Okay.
Lucas Twigga.
Lucas Twigga.
Thomas Batley.
Thomas Batley. Ney and Biswas. Ne them out. Okay. Lucas Twigga. Lucas Twigga. Thomas Batley. Thomas Batley.
Neon Biswas.
Neon Biswas.
But when they approached me, they said,
are you actually kidding?
You need to pull out of this gig.
Basically.
Really?
Because you're so essentially dull.
You're a chef, restaurateur.
A judge on the best food show on television.
And they're going to tell you you're not suited to this food podcast.
But you have funny people on this. You have some epic, epic guests.
So honestly, I do, I do, I'm quite humble to be on.
It's a really weird thing, you know, because I've only just started,
in fairness, I've only just really started doing TV, so I'm not kind of famous in that way.
So I'm still at that level where people see you in the street.
And I don't know if you remember getting to that point where people see you in the street
and they think they know you from their social life.
So they think, they go, oh my God, where have we met?
Where have we met?
How do you deal with that?
So once I've learned a lesson.
I was in a hospital, went to visit my uncle anyway and a nurse came up and she said, are
you a doctor here?
I thought, buddy, I wish my dog's crying.
Sorry.
No, don't shout.
Just sit down.
And she said, are you a doctor
here? And I said, no. And I sort of knew that she kind of seen me on this morning or whatever,
GBM. She said, why is it, are you a nurse? I said, no. And she said, physiotherapist, what is it?
And, and that point, I thought, I'm going to say, I'm going to sound like an ass here, but I'm
going to say, and I said, I do a little bit of TV. And she said, no, it's definitely not that.
but I'm going to say, and I said, I do a little bit of TV and she said,
no, it's definitely not that.
And I never, ever, ever repeated that again.
So you just kind of play along and I just say,
I've got one of those faces.
I had a wedding the other day.
One of the other guests came up to me and went,
I swear I know you from somewhere.
I went, I'll be here all day.
You've got time to work it out.
She didn't work it out.
Joe Lysett texted me the other day letting me know that there was someone at Bourbon
City Airport who was looking forward to coming to see me. They were showing Kettering and
he knows that because they came and told him they were looking forward to seeing him. They
were giggling Kettering. And their girlfriend's a big off menu fan and then came back later
and said, sorry, she's going to kill me if I don't get a photo. He told me they got a
selfie together. And then he said, he's going to kill me if I don't get a photo. He told me they got a selfie together.
And then he said, he's going to send that to his girlfriend and he'll be back
in about 10 minutes to explain to me what's gone wrong.
Did that, sent me a photo of the two of them doing the thumbs up.
They had gone wrong.
I sent him back a photo of me doing a thumbs up and the guy had his photo
taken with the photo of me with the photo.
I can't believe that still happens to you two.
You know, at what point does it's a strange thing?
I might diminish before then.
Yeah? Yeah, you need...
What do you mean diminish?
Just in terms of the amount of TV that I do.
So I do GBM, I do this morning.
And, you know, but I'm running restaurants as well.
So you've got to sort of pick your battles a bit.
Quite busy.
A little bit, yeah.
And so maybe I do less, I don't know. But what's great
is just doing the bits that you like, you know, just doing TV and things that you like. I think
you've got to start really, you know, being judicious about it. Yeah, sure. Goose is very curious
about everything that's on the table. She just, should we put her out? Do you think?
It's pretty funny to have her in here. Okay, good. Yeah, it is like having a primary.
She's got the chicken strippers out my bag. Pulled out a whole box of chicken strippers. So I'm going
to give her another chicken stripper. She just had one and it didn't really help. She
still went back in your bag and I say it's made her worse than she was before when he
gave her the chicken stripper. The sad truth is it's helping her bowel mobility beneath
her. So they'll come a point. We're getting Japanese. Good. So we're getting the dog full of chicken strippers
to help her bow mobility.
And we're in a small closed studio.
That's not good.
Well, it's going to be a first for us, my new bar.
I can't wait for it to happen.
All of us choking on guffs.
I hope it.
So do you ever have dogs in here, people?
Have you had to?
Yeah, toast.
Toast.
Ponytoast has been in here.
But yeah, he can't sit still at all.
Really?
I mean, either can go to be fair.
Do you find it distracting?
No.
No.
Well, in a nice way.
Nice for a change, you know?
To have a dog running around.
If you're not distracted, I'm not going to be distracted.
So this is amazing, just talking food.
Yes.
It's such a rare treat, isn't it?
Love it.
I eat food all the time.
Well, it's funny because so, yes, so I build restaurants is what I do.
And the menu is mine.
And it doesn't, I think it's really important
not to keep changing it.
So there'll be the odd thing that changes or I tweak.
And what I tend to do is put things,
if there's a dish that isn't selling,
it's dead interesting, I put it out social media.
So I built this on social media
and I know you think this is hilarious,
but it will literally, my social media is all me.
Pictures of the dogs, pictures of the goats, pictures of whatever, can you hear a whinging? And so there was a dish for instance,
a cabbage dish that wasn't selling and it's an amazing dish. The way the Indians cook cabbage
is so clever. Anyway, so put it out to social media, cabbage dish isn't selling. Can you tell me why?
Is it because it's not nice or what is that I'm doing wrong with this? And the audience came back
and said English people would never pay to eat something with the word cabbage in in a restaurant. So I changed the name to Tangled
Greens and suddenly the sales went up. It's so interesting. You know, just having that really
instant relationship with your audience. Same with omelettes. So cutty wraps, you'll know what a
cutty wrap is where it's a chapatti with an Indian omelette, masala omelette with onions and chili
and da-da-da nice. And it wasn't selling.
And again, the feedback came back, they keep it on,
but just don't use the word omelette on your menu.
So it's that kind of tweaking.
So as a result...
So the tangle greens is actually cabbage.
It's cabbage, yeah.
Oh, I'm never fucking eating that again.
What the hell did you think it was?
Cabbage, absolutely disgusting.
For God's sake, do you think that cabbage
does not photosynthesize?
Disgusting.
It's a green, my love.
It's a bloody green.
What?
Jeez.
Come on, you're serving cabbage in your restaurant.
What a rip off.
Oh my God, it's so good though.
That's the thing.
No, it's really nice.
You don't have to pretend to like it.
I love it.
We love your restaurants.
If you ever take chart bombs off the menu,
you are in trouble.
You're sweet to say that.
I'm going to be furious.
Really, you are very sweet to say that. Honestly, I built it for the chat bombs. Bombs away. Bombs away. Because they're really
pernicious little bugger. So when you make a chat bomb, it will retain its shape for eight minutes,
and then it deliquishes. It just disintegrates. So can you see building a commercial enterprise on
the basis of something so
exacting was a real challenge and you can see why people don't really do them in restaurants So in India you get them on street corners and they're sold, you know a rupee and you get one
So they hand you one of these bonds because it's gonna dissolve. So we have to do it obviously
So we've got one dedicated chat chef you come in place your order immediately. That's made immediately brought to your table
So you can get them in and get the crunch.
You know, it's so interesting, you know, starting in,
you probably don't wanna talk about restaurants,
but starting an Indian restaurant and you realize,
well, it's just-
I definitely do, that's why it's quite hard
on our list of things to talk about.
I don't know.
But it's the food, so you know that curry house,
where eating, which is fantastic,
but those meat dishes that you can cook,
like a big meat curry, and it keeps for a week. And in fact, on day three is when it said it's very best,
because when anything's got garlic or onion in it, it gets better and better. But it's when
you start introducing meat free stuff, it's a lot more fragile. And so building restaurants on the
basis stuff that's freshly made every day, things like that, cabbage dish, you can't keep it to the next day. It's got to be made and then served and all of that. So it was a tricky
one, you know, approaching how you do this. And you've got to be busy. That's the horrible
ironies. You've got to be busy to make it work.
Had a meal in Rome once where they did like chat bombs, like similar things. And I was
really excited to have, and probably, this is probably one of the most meanals
I've ever had it was a bad it was a bad place. Yeah, it's really weird really friendly friendly waiter though and
Got the bombs and they were just fault that they just filled them with um cuz you know some of the poor liquid in them
I don't really do it emoji did they but they pull it liquid on them and it was just like um mouthwash
I wasn't expecting that taste so put it in
Disgusting a whole load of them. It's really bad. And then whatever I had for my main course, I can't remember what it was. It wasn't very nice, but I was so hungry that I just finished it. And the waiter came over and he went, he shouldn't ever hear this at a restaurant. He came over and went, hey, you finished it. That's cool.
Really bad.
And then at the end of the cocktail, and it was the same mouthwash as the Golguppas.
It was the same thing.
Oh my God.
Gosh, you've got a good knot.
You've got a good knot in their Golguppas there.
That's a whole different thing.
So it tasted, it wasn't that tamarind.
So they're different.
Golguppas and tap-pops are different things.
Yeah.
So Golguppas have got the liquid in.
They've got a tamarind liquid.
They're dead cool.
So they should be dead.
I.e. they're a cool concept, aren't they?
They've got this crisp outer shell
and it is a tamarind mint sweet and sour kind of liquid that you pour in and pop it in. So I
started Mowgli with, they're called punny, which means water. Puri on the menu. And remember,
and this is no indictment on anywhere in the country really, but I started Mowgli what nine
years ago in Liverpool,
when Liverpool was getting the Dirty Berger movement, so it was a real risk and that was
just a bridge too far. You know, something that goes into your mouth pops and it's liquid,
it's a bit postular, isn't it? You know, so you've got to read your audience and so I
pulled them, I might reinstate them, but I think we've just got a little bit of a way
to go before.
Your reaction is pretty typical. Okay, you were offended by the taste of the kind of listerine interior, weren't you? No, no, no. I've had a mouthwear delicious with the liquid in. Absolutely
amazing. It was this particular place. Trust me. Trust me. You're saying that with the liquid,
it's a bit pustular. With the liquid, it's a bit pusted though.
With the liquid, it's a bit pusted.
But you put yogurt into yours, right?
You do, but there's a little bit.
That's more pustular to me, and I watch Dr. Pimple Popper.
It's very, very Dr. Pimple Popper, isn't it?
Yeah, and I love that.
I think you're anchored by...
Oh, my gosh, I'm supposed to not be making this food sound horrendous,
but you're anchored by the chickpeas.
I think by virtue of the fact that you've got a bit of rubble going on in there.
I've seen Dr. Pimple Pop for videos with bits of rubble coming out as well.
Also, I think it's nice that you do a different spin on it.
There's a different...
I can think that that's where I'd go to get that particular thing, is Mowgli.
I couldn't really go anywhere else to get something that's like the chat bombs.
Yeah.
Mowgli.
Yeah, we trademarked the word chat bombs.
When I started it, trademarked the word chat bombs. Because you're right we trade marked the word when I started it, trade marked the
word chat bombs, because you're right. It is, it's every, every person makes them differently.
Every street corner has got a different permutation of ingredients that goes in it.
Is that the only reason you go there? Is that the only dish you have?
Yeah, I don't know what else you do. Oh, God, you break your mouth.
I go with a full amount of chat bombs to myself and don't sit me on a fucking swing.
I would have fallen out of chap bombs to myself and don't sit me on a fucking swing. Do you not like the swings?
I was on the swings once and I lasted two minutes. I was like, sorry man, I can't do the swing.
I can't do this. And every time I go into a mogul in someone's sat in a swing, I'm like, oh look.
Lookie. Yeah, look at the swing. The swings are very popular. They're not for... By the way, listeners
in every mogul has a swing. As a swing seat. Well, the way, listeners in every Mowgli has a swing.
Has a swing seat.
Well, there's only one or two that don't have swings.
Yeah, so swing seat.
They're not for us, Nisha.
The swings are for the Huns.
Yeah, they're for the Huns.
You're getting the Huns in.
They're sitting on the swing.
They're putting it on Instagram.
You know what you're doing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Do you know what's dead interesting?
Across the country, the swing seats sell out.
So if you want to book...
People want to book the swing seats across the country.
The only city where people can complain about going on swings is Glasgow and we cannot work out why
that is really interesting. Because they're legends aren't they? You approve of that don't you?
Not doing it for the grant. I love it. God, chef, for me because the reason I put them in is because
so I design every single Murgli, every brick of every Murgli and behind my grandmother's house in
Varanasi, there's like a broken down temple, you know, it's all broken down brick,
it's got vines, it's got monkeys, and we used to go down a sort of play amongst us and you're
swinging off the vine, you know, it's very jungle buckle, this has got nothing to do with the jungle
bulk because of course that came to us, didn't it? And so that's what it's that feeling of swinging,
it makes you feel James like a little girl.
Well, that's lovely.
I tell you, you don't want to feel like a little girl, perhaps.
I guess I didn't on that particularly.
No.
I was like, I don't want to feel like a little girl.
But you know, food was lovely.
Yeah, thank you very much.
I don't just get the cheese on toast.
I get that.
Jo, I try something different every time.
You try something different every time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, it's really good of you to even go.
I was in Liverpool recently and I was there for a week and I went to Mowgli twice.
Yeah, so I'm building outside of it.
You know, I've got one in Charlotte Street.
Yeah.
And so I'm at the junction now where I think, OK, do I do more in London?
Do I do, you know, build a bit more of a sort of London empire?
And for everyone Mowgli I build in London,
it means there are two outside of London you can't build. Because the rents here are extortionate here being London.
You know, recruitment's harder. So here in London, 90% of front of house staff or, you
know, back of house and front of house hospitality staff were European. Then we had Brexit, didn't
we? Didn't we? Whereas, you know, the rest of the country were only 17% European. So
there's so many reasons why I can't keep building.
I get London, though. It's great's great. Like as a touring comic,
I really liked the fact that like Mowgli was like around the country and I couldn't get it in London.
Yeah, I really...
Because I can go, I'm on tour, I can look forward to I want to get a Mowgli at this place when I
want to go there. So like, I ain't never going in that Charlotte Street one.
Exactly.
It's like, don't be saying that.
No, I've been there. That's where they sat me on this fucking swing.
Is that right?
Nisha's got a lot of restaurants
and an increasing amount of restaurants.
There's a running joke on a Great British Menu
where every time we have a lunch break
or something to go away for an hour,
we go back into the judging chamber,
Tom Carridge will always go,
what you been up to Nisha?
Open another three fucking restaurants.
He's a cheeky bastard.
It's the same old trope every time.
So interesting, J.
Because you, I mean,
obviously you watch airdon't break which menu. And so we're this new judging panel. Do you watch it?
Yeah, yeah. Every now and again. Yeah, he checks in. Do you just check in every self? And yeah,
I'm bad at watching a full series, but like when I see, oh, it's on and I'm in. Yeah,
it's because you're best mates on it. You know, would you not tune in for that? Yeah, I'm very
happy for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was a funny one, wasn't it? When we started,
because we're all set, the three of us are so different, we couldn't be more different, could we?
Could we, in terms of everything about us, age, stage...
Ed's got stuff in common with carriage.
In the testosterone?
Yes. But I'm a proper manly man.
Yeah, he's so cute.
I'll put you on some got similar relationships to food,
but when we interviewed Carriage, you had a lot in common.
That was before you did Great British Men.
Was that before? GBM, really?
Oh, it was years ago we had Carriage on this.
Yeah, right. Let's talk about your new book, Nisha.
Oh, very sweet of you.
You've got lots of books out, of course.
I've got books, yeah. Meet Free Mowgli.
Yeah, Meet Free Mowgli, 30-minute Mowgli. 30-minute Mowgli, and now bold.
Now bold is dead exciting because it's got a beautiful cover.
And the colours of the cover match my bangles.
I wear all the time, all the time, all the time.
But more importantly, it's a bit, it's classy, James.
I don't often do classy.
No?
Oh, God love, no.
It's classics.
It's classics with a really interesting ingredient, which is
pretty much the way I cook. So, you know, kind of the crucible in which my culinary habits and
skills have been formed. Yeah. Well, you know, I was born in this country, raised by two Indian
parents, obviously. And so when English food did get through our door, it was immediately
adulterated. So never, you know, do you remember
Finda's crispy pancakes? We're too young for that, yeah? So they'd come in, but my mother would flip
them open, bit of garam masala inside, flip them back shut. There was never anything that wasn't in
some way pimped. This is not about this. Actually, I'm not doing bowl justice. Bowl is the recipes
I'm really excited about. There's one of the recipes isn't Finda's crispy pancakes with garam
masala. Can I tell you how tempted I was to do that?
You should have done that.
That is totally authentic.
You know, those lamb grill steaks that were made from the sweepings up from the abattoir
floor.
Uh-huh.
You know, a little bit of masala paste on those, those that go under the grill.
That kind of the typical Indian pimping.
But this is not that.
This is, gosh, things like, oh my gosh, pineapple and anchovy croquettes and things like just
those combinations of flavours. And I think what happens is when you have been raised in such a subversive way when it
comes to flavours and ingredients, your whole approach to food is boundless. So you're just
thinking this really naive open-minded way. So I'm constantly experimenting with, you know,
things that sticks, flavours that work together, a bit of flavor, thesauracy kind of in that way.
And that's what bold is, is it's being bold,
brave enough to just, it's kind of that,
trust me on this, add this to this.
So that's bold, but the Mowgli books are out there as well.
And that's kind of the whole reason that I moved into food
is there writ large in those books
because I was never a foodie.
I was raised to be a barrister or a doctor.
My brother's a doctor, you know, that's what happens.
My parents doctors, you've got to be a doctor.
Otherwise, nobody will marry you or whatever, or you'll have no soul.
If you don't, if you're not a doctor, you will fall off the face of Britain.
Is honestly what we think or what we thought.
So I was a barrister for 20 years, a child protection barrister.
But what I realised as I started to cook Indian food is it's dead exciting is that all
Indian food is predicated only on three spices and two of those never change
It's it's it's this real Archimedes moment. So the two that never change are turmeric and chili
So every curry has got turmeric and chili in it. Tell me if I'm if you're gonna doze off just give me
Just give me some warning. This is nice.
You want another diet?
This is good stuff.
Don't you worry about it.
OK.
But depending on the genre of ingredient,
that third spice changes.
So for instance, with the cabbage, brassicas,
you would use mustard seed, turmeric and chili.
With, say, root veg, you would use cumin, turmeric and chili.
So suddenly, you realize that there
are these very distinct rules that are time-tested and flawless,
that have been passed down. And so I became quite evangelical about teaching this. It's this
three-spice formula. And that's how I started the books. And that's how I started, as a barrister,
I was teaching 10 years while I was still a barrister. And then this entrepreneurial thing
bites where you think, okay, could I flog food that isn't, you know, the way that Indians actually
eat at home, not kind of the curryhouse fare, but how weak when the curtains are drawn and you're
getting out that geriatric cabbage from the back of the veg rack and what you do with it
and how virtuosic and light and fresh and all of that.
That's amazing. I didn't know you were a barrister and then did this complete pivot. That's pretty...
It's mad.
Did you recognise that's pretty impressive?
I tell you what's impressive, honestly, what's impressive is that I think I've lived this long and retained continents. That I think is impressive, because I'm old.
You know, that I think is impressive. Honestly, it's...
Do you want me to tell the story?
I find it very hard to keep continents when I'm with Ed and Tom.
We were in the reception of a hotel and I can't remember what Anisha was laughing at.
We probably didn't even know.
She absolutely lost it laughing and then she wet herself in the reception of a hotel.
I was such an inspiring story because you're being embarrassed and then realizing the free
spice rule and being able to completely change
your entire life. And Ed's just responded with the fact you want to piss yourself in
the hotel.
Do you know, James, do you know what it was? It was simply Ed saying, Nisha, where's your
room? Sending me to my room because I've dabbled in mind. It got to the point, and it still does at GBM,
that he just, even if I'm in the same room as him,
I find it very hard to control my own continents.
It's just the way he lives.
How many times has this happened?
Do you ever find him this far?
I find him so high-jaded.
How many times has this happened?
Honestly, I think I struggle with a lot when I'm with it.
But all he has to do, remember, he just walked into a room and pushed the door open in his
kind of ed gangly way.
And I really lost continents again.
Pissed yourself again.
Yeah, a little bit.
A little bit.
Do you know what I mean?
Because he walked into a room.
Just because he walked into a room.
That's a gift, isn't it?
Yeah.
That's like an Eric Morkham thing.
Surely that was what it was like being Ernie Wise.
You are the only person who reacts like that to me, Nisha. Yeah, I think Ed's found the person who
wants to write us a bit treat. All they had to do was walk into a real Eric Morkham.
But it's so bad because every time we get a comedian on or anyone on as a guest,
I do spend a lot of time saying, don't you think Ed's dead funny?
She tried to get me in the new series of Inside Number Nine when we had Steve Pemberton on.
You should put Ed in your show. Steve, please don't.
Your response when you said what loom are you in, you should have said Number Nine.
No, but obviously, I'm so sorry to interrupt the inspiring story of someone who's doing
fantastic work as a barrister and then is now doing fantastic work within the world
of food. But you did once piss yourself in the lobby of a hotel.
It wasn't a fully fledged, you know what I mean? It wasn't a deluge.
A fully fledged deluge.
But I did need the loo. I did have to then run to the loo.
Yeah. Obviously, it was enough that they knew it. They knew it had happened.
Yeah.
We've got good chemistry on that. Yes. Yeah. We've got good chemistry on that.
Yes.
I think we've got good chemistry on that program.
Yeah, we're a very good team together, I think.
Give me some tips.
I've been trying to get some chemistry going with it was weird because I'm sort of sitting there,
like this kind of dowager ant between the two of you.
I don't know where you got that from.
Just down and so.
What are you talking about?
I am talking about that, honestly.
I cannot imagine that.
Honestly, so first of all,
I think it's really amazing that it shows me that.
Honestly, I was really honored by that
because this is, I'll tell you the thing about it
is it's always been very Michelin-starred kind of food. It's very
Hort cuisine, very, very Western classical, hasn't it? That's what you think of. And the
truth is that's not the way this nation eats anymore. So it's pretty broad-minded of them to
get someone in who his expertise is more world. So I go around the world, I mean, literally
around the world learning how to cook because I'm obsessed with it So, first of all, I was very appreciative of that.
So, it wasn't really kind of them to get you on, because it was like,
but it sounded like you were overly qualified for the job.
I'm overly qualified for family law.
It's a bit different.
No, no, come on.
I think they would say they're lucky to have you.
Before you, there was like those two old dead guys. No, no, no they are such nice guys. And they were amazing.
And you look at that and you think, okay, that's what it is to be a true foodie, you know.
But then the dynamics and then it took a, didn't it take a little while for us to just work out
how we intersected a bit? We didn't, we completely didn't. Because basically,
I thought, first of all, I've just got to say whatever Tom says.
What? Could be Tom. Could be Tom, really. And then I've just got to say whatever Tom says. Well, copy Tom. Copy Tom, really.
Okay.
And then try and get Ed to like me more by,
I just asked him about tattoos as I did 10 minutes ago.
Yeah, yeah, I did know if she did.
You like tattoos, love.
And you say tattoos.
Yeah, tattoos.
That's lovely.
Anyone who says tattoos, I know isn't really interested.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What are you meant to say?
No, I think everyone else in the world says tattoos.
Oh, tattoos.
Not tattoos.
Have you any new tattoos, Ed, that Not tattoos. Have you any new tattoos, Ed?
Have you any new tattoos?
Have you seen anything on the films recently?
Yeah.
To say, to get him to like me.
Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty sure he likes you.
Yeah, I like you instantly, they show.
Yeah.
Well, we'll start with Still Us Barked in Water,
as we always do.
Gosh, I forgot about that. I forgot I was here for this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I can tell.
The thing is that, do you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah.
Still all sparkling water, Ed.
What would you have?
No, we're not doing that.
No, it's about me.
So can I tell you, honestly, I feel quite strongly about this
because I don't like still water very much because...
So I used to go to India a lot when I was very little, a lot, a lot, a lot.
And I spent a lot of time was very little, a lot, a lot, a lot. And I spent a
lot of time with very, very bad diarrhea. Very bad diarrhea because I used to drink the water
that came from whatever, the buckets in the village that were kept, the water was kept then
in a clay pot because they thought that cooled it, but what it in fact did, did it is just made the
water evaporate down into the microbes. So I literally would come back and I was often hospitalized,
it was that bad. So for me, still water smacks of that stuff that you put in drip bags in hospital. It's like
interstitial fluid. It's just, it's the stuff that you would squeeze out of a dressing wound
dressing, not a dressing gown, both actually. Do you know what I mean? I've no fondness for still
water. Most disgusting description of still water we've had on the podcast ever.
It's the worst we've ever had.
We've asked that question so many times and you start to think we've had all the answers
we're going to have, but it reminds you of interstitial fluid that someone squeezed from
a wound dressing.
It's a little bit like that.
Do you know, like they say that a durian fruit smells like an old wound dressing?
Yes.
Stinky fruit.
Stinky fruit.
Yeah. That's the definition. I always think of just still water. It's the stuff of drip
bags. It's the stuff you mop up. It's a nursing term, I think, still. But then sparkling. You see
now the thing with sparkling, can I tell you this? I am very careful about my teeth, James. I'm a very
careful person when it comes to my teeth
because I think, I used to think,
dentists get paid, your mom's not a dentist, Benito.
By the filling.
By the filling.
Yeah, my mom does.
No, oh my dad.
No one is related to any dentist as far as I've ever worked.
Now I love them and I think they're fantastic,
but there was a point, I was raised to believe
that they were paid by the filling so you don't go to the dentist.
So I'm really, and I hadn't had a filling till I was 35 or whatever.
So really careful about my teeth.
Now, have you seen the Malham granite pavements?
It's not what I'm talking about.
No, obviously not.
In Malham, north of England, Yorkshire.
Yeah.
They're called the granite, granite, what's it called?
The granite pave.
So are you googling it? The great, basically carbonic acid, that is what it does Yorkshire. Yeah. They're called the granite, granite, what's it called? The granite paste. Are you googling it?
The great, basically carbonic acid, that is what it does to rock.
Yes. So still, so pure sparkling water, in my view, just completely erodes it.
You're going to end up with, you know, Elizabeth the first teeth,
drinking pure, sparkling water.
So I find it too acidic.
I just find it kind of fuses your frontal lobe to your eyebrows.
You know, it's just strips, your mucous membranes.
I just find it too acidic. So I like to go a half and half.
Yep. So that's true. You take the two things that you don't like and put them together.
Well, you have, you know, you have to be polite, don't you? And I put the two,
but I have to say when I put the two things together, they're perfect.
You're getting that lovely palette cleansing, you know, you get that little bit of acidity,
just a little weight me up, but it's also hydrating. Yeah, don't drink a lot of it.
And that is true. I've witnessed that happen.
You witnessed a half and half. When a runner comes in and says,
would you like some water, still sparkling? And nature says, yes, I'll have half and half, please.
I think half and half is a thing though, isn't it? Surely people do that.
It's the first time maybe we've had that on the podcast. I mean, maybe someone else has said it
at some point, but not as a thing they already do.
I think they probably like maybe riffed it and gone,
let's go over half of that.
But I think you're the first person
who that's your pre-existing preference.
Especially the first person who wants half and half
and half of the drink they want is something they refer to
as something from a drip bag.
And the other half is something
they've seen rot away a pavement.
Yeah.
This is the corner. This is the corner.
This is the corner that you dwell in.
Honestly, in this world, that's it.
You're cornered.
There's two things that you're offered.
You know, they don't offer you the nice stuff, do they?
Whatever that might be.
What would you like?
What would you prefer?
Like, this is your dream meal.
What would you...
Am I doing the drinks now?
Well, what would you like?
Oh, gosh.
Do you know what?
Can I talk about what I'd like? Because
right now I'd love it. I'm going to have a slurp in my latte. One second. Yeah, yeah,
go for it. Yep. You don't have to maintain eye contact with me while you're drinking
the latte, but fair enough. Really intense eye contact there. While slurping the latte
for a straw. Eye slurping. It's coming out my nose, ice latte, now,
because of you, James.
Yeah, yeah.
Funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny.
Funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny.
Funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny.
Yeah, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny.
Funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny.
Funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny.
Funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny.
Funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny.
Funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny. Funny did our dream menus, Ed and I, Ed had a Guinness
at this point, I had Causton Press. So people can't, yeah, isn't it?
That is a cracking drink. Because you know there's no added sugar to that.
Oh I know. You're keeping your teeth intact and you're giving your mouth a party.
It's only lightly sparkling. And it's only light, there's not too much
and it's lovely. It's the taste of all those childhood sweets
in a drink that's going to be kind to your dentition.
Speaking to the choir, I tell you what, if you've poured coarse and press on a block of
granite, it is a thank you very much. I think it would. I think you're going to get crocuses there.
Do you know what I mean? Oh dear lord. Oh heaven. Can I tell you what I love?
Yes. Do you know duck soup in Soho? Oh, dear Lord. You're quite a few. Oh, heaven. Can I tell you what I love?
Yes.
Do you know duck soup in Soho?
Oh, yeah.
Duck soup, yeah.
But yes.
Please go because of the drinking vinegar that they do.
Have you had the drinking vinegar?
No, I haven't.
They are so good, James.
My gosh, have you been?
They're toast nodding.
There's nothing like it, is there?
Isn't it so clever?
Why is it taking us to 2023?
Don't speak to him.
For this? He'll edit it out. Why is it taking us to 2023 for this? He'll let it out.
Why is it taking us to 2023, at Gamble,
for us to get to drinking vinegars in restaurants?
Because they are so good.
You know, there are some drinks,
and you'll appreciate this being a course and press fan.
Where you drink it and you feel your,
I don't know, like your cells putting their arms out
and hugging whatever you've just put in your body.
You know what I mean?
You get it with something, but with crisp drinks, there is nothing like it. And that's what these drinking vinegars
like in duck soup. So they're slightly, they can be fruity, they could be strawberry, they
could be cherry, they could be whatever, you know, it might be. And I think it's essentially
something like apple cider vinegar with some kind of a fresh fruit. Oh, what do it could
be rhubarb, whatever. So I don't think it's kombucha based. They're not kombucha based
things. They are just drinking vinegars
So drinking vinegars is what I would love to go for. That sounds amazing. Yeah
We'll have that instead of water. Absolutely.
It's gonna cut, you know, because...
From the duck soup, from the duck soup drinking vinegars.
Can I go with that as an opening gambit just in terms of drinks?
And do you get like a few of them? Is that how they bring them out?
Well, no, no, no, no, it's not... We're not messing around here. This is not a little taster
Let's wean you into the idea of them
This is served in a tumbler like a old-fashioned. Yeah, do you know me with an ice?
This is a drink and you will enjoy and it is so very good
I can't tell you but it's better than that whole, you know water with the crushed ice and lemon sounds it
I love this. What flavor do you want? Is there a flavor that you think we like? Do you know why I like an artificial cherry flavour? Because you just shared your
Pepsi Max cherry maximum taste drink with me. You want cherry flavoured drinking vinegar.
A little bit of that. That would be smashing or plum. I love a plum drink. You know,
there's plum wine you get in Japanese restaurants. Very nice. Very nice. Really good. So I'll go a
plum drinking vinegar if that's alright to start off. Do you know what I mean? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, what a way to know.
Pop it up, Brett!
Oh, smoke!
Pop it up, Brett!
Pop it up, well.
Nishito, pop it up, Brett.
Now, I'm saying to say,
Sindhu V told me that I've got to say,
pop it up, Brett, and not pop it up, Brett.
Yes, that's stupid.
She told me that, but then Nish Kumar's mum
contested this with Sindhu and was like,
absolutely not, I grew up saying pop it up,
and then the two of them had a very long discussion.
I don't know what they agreed on,
but I said at the live episode that I would say it
in an episode, I'd say Papa Dom's Bread.
Yeah, this is the thing is that word is so ludicrous.
I can't say it's just such a stupid word.
Papa Dom's means nothing to me.
It's just a silly word.
It's like taking a bread from the subcontinent
and adding the doms to it.
It just is a silly
word. We don't, we said, as Cindy would say, we say, Papa. So who was it? Nish's mum that said,
Nish's mum said, I'll go up saying that, what are you talking about? And then they went off
and they had a long, long, long, where'd she grow up in Croydon? Where'd she grow up?
Moved to Croydon. Birkenhead, did she? Did you know that she moved to Croydon?
Yeah, I did. That's where they actually, yeah, they did.
You're actually joking. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You couldn't make it up, could you?
But I actually don't know,
because I know that Nish's dad could have been Kerala,
but I don't know Nish's mum where.
Well, she's from originally.
But Poppedoms, I've never, honestly,
I've never heard Indians say Poppedoms,
but that might be my tribe of Indians.
So we say Poppedoms,
but that's not the reason that I would choose bread.
And I will choose bread. Oh yeah, your microphone's pointing at your larynx. I've taken my earrings out.
I'm going to put my hair up as well for God's sake.
Is that my facial hair? Is that my facial hair on sponge?
You were speaking like this. Yeah it was into your neck. It's like you've got all those things for people who smile to you now.
Oh no.
Some of the characters on South Park.
Yeah.
Funny character.
Into the end there.
So you don't say...
So Papa Dom's, I would go bread.
No, we don't say, we say Papa.
But the thing about Papa Dom's...
I'm even saying that wrong.
Papa.
Yeah.
Well, do you know what? There are so many... You cannot, honestly, this is what it's like to be Indian.
You can never get it right.
Cause there are so many languages.
There are so many whatever.
But for me, that whole pop, I tell you what it is, honestly, James.
So as a little Indian growing up in this country, people would shout that at you
across a playground.
Do you know what I mean?
That's in a, you know, you spent your whole time dodging stones or the word
poppadoom or whatever it might be. So suddenly it's not a wetter of the appetite, you know, you spent your whole time dodging stones or the word popadom or whatever it might be.
So suddenly it's not a wetter of the appetite, you know, nor are those kind of steel
dubbers of doom. She's not talking about those little metal canisters that smell of halitosis
and horse sweat. You know what I mean? No, no, no, no, I thought only what you meant.
Yeah, with the onions. The little metal canisters. Yeah, the chutneys, the chutneys.
The little thing you can do.
It's spinning. Yeah. You take the little. The little many lazy
Susan type things. Yes. Yes. You know, when suddenly it smells
like your GP's breath. No. No. I quite like it. You know what I
mean? They're lovely. Yeah. I'm sure they're lovely, but the
thing about fresh onions, you need fresh onions. It's never as
fresh as you want it to be. So, I will go bread if you don't
mind. So, Pappas, they're lovely,
I'm sure, not really that interesting because I want the chewy, stretchy bread thing that you have.
So can I just tell you a little bit? So I was brought up by two Hindus. So I was brought up by a
Hindu, my father was a Hindu priest. And so the way that your food is formed, your food taste is
formed, is about all that has been forbidden for the whole of your
childhood. So many things are forbidden. So as Hindus, you're primarily, because my father was a
priest, you're primarily completely meat free. And it's not just that, it's the way that Indians
eat. So they believe that things like garlic and onion are passion or heat giving. And so those are
forbidden. So if you become a widow in India, here's the thing, you can never again have garlic or onion or even meat
or fish. Well, fish is a bit different. You can't, you shave your head. My grandmother
had a head shaved. You wear white for the rest of your life as a widow. You know, everything
is about what thou shalt not do. You know. And one of the other things that we don't
have is that whole baking culture. You know, we don't. So we make flatbreads on a pan, but the oven was used to store tins of stuff,
you know, you put your wrestling tins in the oven, you don't bake in the oven. So that whole thing
about having bread and the elasticity, we don't have anything in our culture that's got that kind
of slithering elasticity to it that bounce, because meat, for instance, has got to be killed,
it's cooked till it's dead twice, it's cooked till it's really done. You'd never have a pink chop,
you'd never have scallops or squid necessarily unless you lived in certain areas in the coastal
regions you know. So all of these things that are chewy and gelatinous and a bit elastic,
I am totally drawn to, I was never allowed to have chewing gum or bubble gum. So I used to look
with it, you know like in Elf the film, I used to honestly, I swear, look with envy
at those blobs of bubble gum on the pavement.
Okay, but you didn't need them.
I didn't. It was very tentative.
Yeah. So I thought that was where that was going.
James, I was really, and you know what? In my memory, I felt like I did.
Yeah.
In my memory, I'm saying it now on, is this live TV?
Yes. Yes. So I must have been about six or
seven, but I was banned these things and I remember the taste of bubblegum. And I think
I'd seen some and I'd pulled it off like Will Farrell and eaten it. And it was heaven.
My God, it was heaven. Benito's eyes go. So you're saying, are you saying that you did do that?
I'm saying that as a young child, I remember doing that.
Honestly, I don't understand that.
So we've gone from, no, I didn't do that to,
yes, I'd have never did that.
Do you know, Ed, can I tell you what?
I think water is disgusting.
It's so bad, but this is why you don't forbid things
to children, honestly.
This is seriously, because nor was I ever allowed, I'm not going to my bread yet. So shut me up in a minute, you know,
but nor was I ever allowed to eat beef or anything with any beef goods. So therefore I've never
had a Yorkshire pudding. So I got to Union, then I'd have steak every single day. It's
all of that. So it was whatever was forbidden me, I would go crazy with. That's why bread
is such an amazing thing because it's that elasticity. And the bread I would go crazy with. That's why bread is such an amazing thing, because it's that elasticity.
And the bread I'd go for,
if I can go for a cup of it, basically,
I'd like a basket, I'd like Brazilian cheese bread.
Yes.
Oh my God, do you love it?
Absolutely love it, yeah.
I went to Brazil once and just, that's pretty much all I ate.
Didn't know you went to Brazil.
Yeah, many years ago.
Are you just making that up?
No.
To get James to like you?
No, James likes me already.
Sure idea.
Well, he likes me the most.
He's ever gonna like me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's like,
We've hit the ceiling there.
So yeah, there's no point trying any harder.
I could feel like your mom.
The panda, panda Cahill, right?
Exactly.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
It's so good.
You think you get a bread roll.
The first time I had it, it blew my mind.
I think you've got a bread roll. You tear the bread roll open. It's quite a thin Because you think you get a bread roll. The first time I had it, it blew my mind. You think you've got a bread roll,
you tear the bread roll open.
It's quite a thin amount of bread really, isn't it?
And then it's just got the fat bit of cheese in the middle.
Panda Cahill.
Yeah.
Cahill.
I may be saying it wrong, but...
I thought we were talking about a panda with a big problem.
I'm gonna get it on my messages
because one of my friends is Brazilian
and she was telling me how to say it,
so she did a message to me.
And this is how you say it.
You ready?
Wow.
You had that.
I mean, just so the listener knows,
there wasn't any editing done there to speed up that process.
They should have just brought it up immediately.
Friends saying that.
Yeah.
And then I've gone on to, you know,
how are we going to fix the bathroom mirror?
Yeah.
That's the best way to watch that.
Yeah.
That's my WhatsApp messages. But you know what's interesting we going to fix the bathroom mirror? Yeah, that's the best way to watch that. Yeah, that's my WhatsApp messages.
But you know what's interesting about it is it's tapioca or cassava flowers.
So there's no flower.
So I don't know what you had, whether it was a cheesy mass in the middle,
but it is entirely elastic, isn't it?
It's unleavened.
The place to try it, honestly, James, try it.
It's so in Seven Dials, there's a new little
Cerviceria open, you know, uh, ceviche. Yeah.
So it's a Brazilian and they do them there. These little round ones.
But I remember I used to at the age of 14, 15, that was a long time ago.
I'm not being facetious. It was a long time ago,
but Neil's yard used to have these little different sort of food stalls in.
And one of those had Brazilian cheese bread and I would come down.
I kid you not, we had friends in London in Crouch End at the age of 14,
I would come down for two things to learn. And one was to go and buy this Brazilian cheese bread that was like,
it was like cheesy bread-y chewing gum. Oh, God, it was heaven. So good. And the other was to go to
Harrods and buy Biltongue, you know, Biltongue, dried South African beef, because it was the only
place you could get those things.
But again, it's like having a kind of dog chew. It's having a beefy dog chew. So that would be my bread. But also, could I also have in the bread basket because this is important?
Irish Soda Bread.
Irish Soda Bread. Are we here with me? It's barely bread. It's so crumbly. It's held together by
the Holy Spirit, I think.
And it crumbles like communion.
And the only thing that can hold it together
is the masses of cold butter that you put on it.
Yeah, I love it.
It's so, so good.
And it's got that lovely milky cuddly aroma to it.
Stouty flavor.
And if it's really like a dream restaurant,
the inside of a croissant.
What?
Just the inside?
I know what you mean. I absolutely know what you mean.
What's that?
You know, like there's a crispy bit on the outside, right?
Yeah.
Then there's the pillowy stretchy bit on the inside.
It's that yellow buttery. So if you're lucky, get one, you pull the end off.
Do you know what a Savoyatelle is? You know that it's like an Italian pastry that looks like
a lobster's tail? I think you pronounce it Savoyatelle. And they stuff it with ricotta.
So you get the end of the croissant that's like that, so crispy, crispy, but then you get that
ribbon of stretchy yellow. That would be my dream if we could have a dream, you know,
bread basket. I'd have that.
Middle of a glass.
Absolutely.
And you want, you know, the end of the class, to cut your gums, because it's all right to
cut your gums on pastry.
It's not all right to cut your gums on something like sourdough.
I've got no fondness for the sourdough.
And I know I should, and I know I should, because I think that puts me into the sort
of culinary middle classes, but I ain't ever going to get there, right?
Do you know what I mean?
I'm just never going to get there.
There are some, it's so weird, you know,
it kind of put in my head.
It's like I'm kind of that little Indian in brown,
camp corduroy with facial hair or whatever on a chopper bike.
Do you remember those?
You two are too young.
I do know a chopper bike.
You've lost me with the analogy.
What were you talking about?
So what I'm saying is in terms of culinary terms,
it's like we were there and you'd look at,
you know, the way that people are eating around you and this appreciation of things like
whatever it might be, good breads, baked goods, wines, you know, they'd have parents that were
exposing, you know, the people around us to these amazing things and we were going home to bargees
and, you know, Bell's whiskey or whatever it
might be, Johnny Walker, Black Label, who was the height of elegance for us back then.
So there are so many things that just are sort of unreachable for me.
These ladders that I kind of look up and sourdough is at the top of one.
I've got to get there, but I do not appreciate the bleeding gums, the broken molars, the
smell of thrush that comes from them. Not just not with it.
So it doesn't sound like...
You're saying you don't want to go for the culinary middle classes,
but you know, five minutes ago you told a story about going to Harrods to buy built on, right?
It makes no sense to me.
And it just seems that really you don't like salad,
because you don't like how it tastes or smells.
I really... Do you know the thing is...
Look, it is attainable to you. You don't really like it.
Okay, strip all of that cultural reference away. But the truth is just, yeah, I don't
appreciate it and I need to because it is so good for you and it is so good and it's such
a worthy bread. I love this bread basket that you've got though. Yes. Brazilian cheese bread,
inside of a croissant, Irish soda bread. Yeah.
Are you going to shout Pop It Ones Bread again or is that done now?
I've done now. I've done it. Yeah, great. Are you going to shout Pop It Ones A Bread again or is that done now? I've done now.
I've done it.
Yeah.
Great.
Do you shout anything else?
No.
I might do if you like, if you make me angry at any point.
How would you make you angry?
By choosing a savoury instead of a dessert at the end.
It's not what you said for a nice cheeseburger, isn't it?
Gosh, let's see where we go with this.
Dear God, I've pulled onto my seat. Go on, Amy, James.
Well, listen, I think I'm all right.
You used to eat chewing gum off a rate, Lise.
I think you're going to choose a dessert.
I don't even think it was a raiding.
I've got a horrible memory of sitting on this pavement
in Scalmersdale, which is where I was raiding.
I mean, it's getting more and more specific.
I'm going on the street.
Each time you return to it, you definitely did it.
So can I tell you, I I was telling the story to someone
because it does mean a lot,
because it's that whole chewing thing, you know,
and how drawn I am to things like that.
And they said, you must never, ever tell anyone
that you did that, and here I am.
Yes.
With a microphone.
Yeah.
But I was very young.
I remember being very young.
And then I remember thinking that is why
you don't prohibit things.
Yeah. You know what I mean? There's a lesson in it.
Yeah. I hope Benito can put together just a little edit to go out on its own of the progression of
this story of I didn't do it. I may have done it. I did do it. It was in this specific place.
A friend told me not to tell you this.
Your dream starter.
Let's get into your dream menu proper.
Oh my gosh.
Can I tell you my dream starter?
Yes.
Oh, yeah.
But it's a pasta course, but that's fine, isn't it?
Yeah.
So it's kind of, it's kind of chase,
a bit of a chase of a, of a colony dragon for me, this.
And it is pasta.
I a Ritchie Damari richie de mari so it's pasta
spaghetti with sea urchins have you had this no no haven't you but I've had sea
urchins do you love sea urchins I'm not sure yeah I know exactly what you mean
because they can be a little bit iodine you can't be a bit iodine and I don't
easily get creeped out by the way things look, but I'd say that's on the top
end of me getting creeped out by how things look.
Yeah.
I totally get that.
And she's very strange.
So this was about 15 years ago, and it's a very Sicilian thing.
And my husband is a classical guitarist who's playing a concert in Sicily.
So he played this concert.
And we went for a meal, as you often do with the organisers.
And there was this pasta dish served. And we went for a meal as you often do with the organizers. And there was a, this pasta dish served and it was simple. So all it is, it's spaghetti, but a really
good, not as an angel hair, but a fine spaghetti. And it's sea urchins and it's a little bit
of garlic and I think it's olive oil and you don't mess with it much more than that.
So a bit of salt, you don't then put chili flakes on or anything like that. It's really
simple. But the flavor of that, I can't tell you, because it was nutty. So it's a little bit nutty. It tastes of the sea though, and it's a tiny
little bit kind of, I'm not, sweetest, too strong a word, but it was completely all things that you
would want on the palate. It didn't, what's interesting though, it doesn't have that ID
any flavour, you know, it doesn't have that slight medicinal edge that it can have, you know,
sea urchin. And I have gone back because I do this,
and I'm sure you do this, but I will go back to a country just to find that food again.
And very sweetly Channel 4 sent me out to do a Taste of Italy, which is a whole program on
Italian food, which is amazing that they chose me again. Honestly, I really do mean that. It was
incredible to do that. And went searching for this Ricci de Mare, and I've never tasted it as good as that again.
But, I mean, do you not have a culinary dragon that you chase?
You tasted something that you tried to get again, and it's never been the same.
Quite often I've found that things aren't the same just because it's not that night.
Really? Do you think so?
Even in, like, environmental, like, the environmental factors matter so much, I think.
Yeah.
But I don't think there's anything that I'm like hunting down, like that.
If I go back to the exact same place, it usually doesn't let me down. But if I'm trying
to find a certain dish in other, you know, if I have it somewhere, it's incredible. And then if I
ever see on the menu order again, it's never quite, because it's at a different restaurant,
different location or whatever, they don't quite do it as well, and you're trying to find it as
good as that. I think I've had stuff like that. Yeah this was I mean this was
extraordinary and you have it again and it is amazing and I would really really
honestly I'd recommend it if you see it on a menu. Yeah it sounds amazing. I really recommend it and then
there's just something about the way that it moistened the spaghetti and
you know you kind of get there like you become like sort of slippery mermaids
tails this spaghetti it's just this immersion into everything that's nutty and
sea-like. Oh my gosh, really good. But can I do an honourable munchin'?
Yes. Really pleased with yourself.
I'm so thrilled. I literally was so pleased. I don't think I'll be able to announce it.
So, our honourable munchin' is the green prawn ceviche speedboat bar. Yes.
You pointed me to the other day.
So good, yeah.
That, right.
I've had that really recently,
because again, Ed,
Ed probably has given the same recommendations
to everyone apparently.
No, you weren't there before me.
Oh, yeah.
You did, Tom, this is a character from the character.
That green prawn ceviche was absolutely incredible.
That was my favorite thing of the night.
I made a lot of good things that night.
But that was, and also I was in a really lucky part of the table, there's a big group of
us. And in my corner, there was some people who just didn't like prawns, not up for them.
So I was cleaning up.
That's fantastic. You do want to dine with people who don't like food very much, so that's
the best way of eating, isn't it? Oh, it's fantastic. But that is a really, I think anything,
you know, raw prawns, we think anything, you know raw prawns,
we need to do more with raw prawns, you know botanébi or whatever, these giant prawns
that you get in sashimi and sushi places, there is nothing sweeter and you know there's
nothing fishy about them, they are absolutely gems and gorgeous and that's a really good
treatment of them. So that's my honourable luncheon.
Really hot as well, both spicy and but really flavourful.
Your dream main course. Can I tell you what I love, what I love.
You can't tell us what you love yet. I do love a Chinese hot pot.
Oh lovely. Do you know, I mean, just treasure trove, lovely.
So the restaurants that I go to for these, one London restaurant is Pang Pang.
So Pang Pang is on Upper St. Martin's Lane.
Please, honestly, I highly recommend it.
It's really weird because you walked past it and it's kind of blue neon inside.
It's kind of got a bit of blue neon going on and it's got some kind of mirrored walls.
It looks a little bit oligarchical, which always puts me off. So go in and order the fish head hot pot and do not be put off.
I'm just speaking to you as though no one's listening because this will put a lot of people off
food, I think, potentially. But this is truthfully heaven food wise. So one is a fish head hot pot
in Pang Pang. Yeah. Have you been to cafe TPT in Chinatown.
No, I haven't. Should I be going there? Really amazing hot pots. Right.
They're Aubergine and Pork Mints Hot Pot. I didn't have the hot pot, but that place is great.
Yeah. Just two days ago, I went there and got the hot pot. Delicious.
Tell me something. Are you saying that they put Aubergine and Mints Pork in the soup itself?
Yeah. It's in the hot pot bit, in the hot stone hot pot bit that they bring over.
Really, so we're talking about a big bubbling vat of soup, different flavours you can get.
Yeah, yeah.
So these are the soups, like in Hyde Lo, you've seen that in Leicester Square?
Yeah, in there, love it.
Yeah, so you can choose your soup base, but what's so incredible about it is it honestly is all things to all people.
I mean, I'm preaching to the converters here, but I'm just going to...
So what particularly for me I love is the fact that you can get all these... It's all of those textures,
and it is... So, you get things like the konjac threads, which is kind of, you know, their sweet
potato or their mung bean noodle bundles that you drop into the soup, and you get that really elastic,
playful texture. It's like a Fisher Price activity centre for the mouth. You get sweet potato noodles that have got that elasticity. You get squid
tentacles, seaweed that goes in and then expands the black fungus, all of these incredibly
fresh ingredients. And then you can order the greens, so you get bundles of kind of,
you know, spearhead looking spinach and crown daisy, just greens that you don't get in a
British supermarket. And what a privilege to take these things, you know what I mean?
Because I wouldn't know what to do with them, you know. So you're presented with these things,
you drop them into the soup. So the soup base can be bone marrow. It can be a bone base.
It can be a mushroom base. It can be whatever, shishwan base. But they've always got goji
berries in and they've got Chinese dates in. And it's just such a, such a luxurious addition to these soups.
I love it. And just the interactive nature of it as well.
And the, particularly the thing I like at Heidi Lau, which is the minced shrimp balls,
that you then dip in and cook and leave it there for a bit.
And then just, yeah, and I get the, like there's a beef tallow broth, which almost, if you, if you pull something out and then it goes on the table,
you see it hard and up again. It's just like, just full of fat. It's amazing. But this is such a
good choice. What's in the fish head one? So this is, this is the thing. And I'm really, I mean,
I think this is coming from the East and Eastern cuisine. Honestly, you want to every, if you're
going to eat an animal, you want to every part of the animal. So we eat the heads, you know, we eat the tails. You know, you don't,
there's no such thing as a hermetically sealed bit of chicken breast in an Indian
fridge. It's always bone in, always. And I think it's really important. But what's so
good? I just think it's really brave. This is in the center of the West End, you know, these
hot pot restaurants are the center of the West End, and they are completely unameliorated.
They do not tone down the authenticity of their
cuisine. It is what it is and it is utterly delicious and done right we should be learning
to eat in that way. So it will be the silver carp head and that sounds awful doesn't it?
But they serve one in fallow as well. I noticed that you know fish heads are becoming a thing
and good for them for doing that because why waste it and there's so much meat. But I think
because it's so articulated you know because the bones in the mouth are constantly moved, the fish's
mouth is constantly... The more articulation, the softer the meat, the tastier the meat,
you know, the more work it's done. So it's not as though they just pop a head in, it's the
structure of the jaw or whatever, or it's the bones, but the flesh from that fish, I have to say,
honestly, is some of the best fish I've ever tasted.
Please try it and let me know what you think.
Honestly, I always text you from that place, but please go and try that fish head soup.
Honestly, James, you're not afraid of that kind of stuff.
I'm not afraid.
No.
But do you know what the other really amazing thing is about hotpot restaurants?
Have you ever been to the sauce bit at the side?
So you go around the corner and then you go and pick
your sauces and it is like discovering for the first time as a human being a piano and all the
permutations and combinations of notes you can play in these various sauces that you can put
together dip your you know thing and say you get your pot of soup you dip your sirloin in or whatever
it might be your tentacle in you put it out of the soup when it's done and you dip it in the
sauces that you've created.
And that, I mean, if you've got a Chinese friend or in Pang Pang, for instance, he will come and he will guide you as to how to put sauces together. But it seems like chive flour sauce and, you know,
fermented bean sauce and green oil, green oil is shishwan oil. So it's the oil they've steeped
shishwan peppers and green shishwan peppers. And it's that tingling, fantastic cleansing, amazing oil.
Just flavors that are totally otherworldly.
It is, you know, it's like being abroad.
It's extraordinary.
I'm going to go there.
Yeah.
Mr. Zeng's in Liverpool.
Can I tell you as well?
So here's the thing.
So what with me being from the North, honestly, the Liverpool Chinese food scene is extraordinary.
So it's the oldest Chinese community. So in terms of Chinatown, it's the Liverpool Chinese food scene is extraordinary. So it's
the oldest Chinese community. So in terms of Chinatown, the oldest Chinatown in the UK.
So Mr. Zengs is a great place to go for hot pot there and Mr. Chili's. So that's a shout out to
the north and these northern restaurants. But it is again, it's that bravery and the audacity
of just bringing that cuisine completely, completely unfiltered to the British audience and saying this is how we need
to evolve to use all the bits of the fish. So that's your, your dream main course is the fish head
hotpot. It's a hotpot. It's a Chinese hotpot. Ideally, I'm going to go with the fish head hotpot.
That's what I'm going to do, if that's all right. Yes. And I'm honestly, I'm not contriving. I told
my nephew about that and he said, oh, you're trying to be cool. Honestly, I'm not. I just thought,
No, you do hotpots at home as well, right? Yeah. Yeah. I told my nephew about that and he said, oh, you're just trying to be cool. Honestly, I'm not. I just thought, okay.
A little bit of...
No, but you do hot pots at home as well, right?
Yeah, yeah.
I've seen you put up on Instagram,
like you've done the whole thing for a big group of people
and got all the ingredients prepared
and laid out and stuff.
It's amazing.
It is, it's so interactive.
It's not just that.
It's not okay for food just to be interactive.
It's got to be utterly delicious.
And in the way that you described that thing
about the chili and you went back the next day,
that is how I feel about hot pots. I will get the train back to Liverpool
today and all I can think about, even as I'm sitting here, is will I make it in time to go
and get a hot pot in? Great. You know, that's, it's totally addictive.
Your dream side dish. So the thing about your hot pot is you're not getting any of that caramelised crunch
anywhere.
So I thought about this and the things that I would, I need that little bit of, I love
a bit of caramelised crunch.
So one thing I would say is my own roast potatoes that are a bit strange, but they're so, so
good.
So very often I will, I will, what?
Do you even know how I've done them?
Yes, carry on. Do you think, well, what? I just remember you showed us a picture of them once
and they looked burnt to fuck. That was a burnt, that was a burnt roast potato, okay? That was one
of the burnt roast potatoes. Do you remember that? Yeah, very proudly showing Tom Carrick to picture him.
Yeah, I was really proud actually. Olive oil is the thing, so you parboil them.
Yeah. So they're very, very, very simple. And they're very, you're not doing that dance to A&E, I was really proud actually. Olive oil is the thing, so you parboil them.
So they're very, very, very simple.
And they're very, you're not doing that dance to A&E,
by having to shake them in hot oil and all of that.
So you parboil them till they're just soft.
You can shake them if you want,
or whatever to get a bit of a coating,
a bit of a powdered outside.
I'm not really bothered about that.
I want the flavor.
Into a tray, in the tray you've got olive oil, just not extra virgin, obviously,
but a good olive oil. You've got a little bit of brown sugar. You've got a little bit of salt,
a bit of garlic puree. Have you switched off? No, I'm listening.
James loves these bits. A tiny little bit, honestly, of turmeric. And that's not an Indian,
I'm not talking about that being going in to do any kind of Indian skewing to this dish. So what term it is, it's simply
tastes of soil, it tastes of earth. So very in India, you would always put turmeric on
potatoes before you cook them, you just always would because what it does is it deepens the
earthiness of your potatoes. It deepens the potato-iness. So I recommend if you're ever
going to make chips or anything like that, just rub it with turmeric before and then fry it. And it just deepens the, I don't know,
the darkness of the flavor. It's really lovely. So a little bit of that. You mix all that together
and then you toss your parboiled potatoes into it. So it's dead simple. So it goes into this cold
mix and then you roast them. And you roast them until they're not black. I took pictures of that
to show you how bad they were.
Yeah, until they go.
So you're also gonna get that lovely golden thing,
but you're getting, what you want from roasties
is you want that kind of, you know,
you want to feel like, the smell of your motor,
the ultimate comfort food, isn't it?
See, what I don't understand,
there's things like adding rosemary.
You know, this is that business about just looking
at the way that there are certain
tropes that I just feel are almost performative, honestly. And I think rosemary in Roasties is
almost like that's what you've seen. Yeah. perfume. I just don't get it. Same on focaccia, you know, which is an amazing thing, but why the
rosemary? I don't, you know, it's just, it's bitter and it's, and it's perfumed and you don't want
perfume with, yeah, exactly with the roesties. And I know you've got James and Bob because
he's never heard anyone suggesting putting sugar on roast potatoes. Yeah, I thought you had me a
brown sugar. James, you know what? The thing is with roesties, because you want a little bit of
that sweetness, don't you? And this is just a dead,
naturally quick way of doing it. You know, so you definitely, because some potatoes are going to give
you a bit of that sweetness and some arm. And isn't it so sad when you get one that isn't giving you
all of those areas of the stimulation of all the areas of the tongue? You want a little bit of
sweet salt. So just a tiny bit of brown sugar ensures you're gonna, every mouthful,
every one of those roasters is going to blow your mind.
So a tiny bit of brown sugar.
What we talked about texture-wise, crunchy, fluffy.
I like a crunchy outside.
And I like a fluffy inside.
Of course, that's what I'm meant to say.
Is that's what I'm meant to say?
That's what I'm meant to say.
I actually don't care as long as I actually don't really care.
As long as it's kind of crunchy-ish on the outside.
And that's the dream is scraping
on the bits off the bottom of the tin, I get that.
But frankly, for me with Roasties, it's really quantity.
You know, more than anything, I like almost a tray to myself.
My other side would be Yorkshire puddings
because I was forbidden them or my childhood.
Now, do you know what you've walked into here?
No, why? What have you done?
I've not done anything.
Ed Gamble, famously on the podcast, hates Yorkshire puddings.
Rubbish. What is wrong with you, Ed?
They're rubbish. They're boring.
Green corduroy shorts you're wearing and you're telling me you don't like Yorkshire puddings.
How are they bland? That's what you want from a Yorkshire pudding.
Well, there you go. So they are.
Yeah, no, bland. But there's a place for bland for goodness sakes.
If you watch that sketching goodness gracious me, it's like a duvet in your mouth. It's a duvet onto your soul.
I think what Yorkshire Puddings is, is you put people who like Yorkshire Puddings off Yorkshire
Puddings now. You've just said they're bland and they're like a duvet in your mouth.
Do you know what they are? They're not bland at all.
What I love about to Yorkshire Puddings is they're packed with flavour.
They're not though, are they? Heart warming flavour.
Yeah.
Nishia, your mic's in your neck again.
Can you hear me all right?
No, because you're really winding me up with this whole Yorkshire pudding thing.
Do you know what I mean? A little bit of gre- you want gravy in them.
Okay, you don't want the desiccated Yorkshire puddings that are sitting there all scroty.
You know, you want the moist.
They're like old pancakes.
Yeah, that's a nice thing, Ed.
It's, but Ed, you're getting the purest taste of meaty carb. Do you know what I mean? That's what
Yorkshire Pudding is doing to you. The outside of a Greg's sausage roll, it's that same
hitch that you're getting. It's a meaty carb. Well, I prefer that then. So next time someone
is preparing Yorkshire puddings, instead for me, I want the outside of a meaty carb. Well, I prefer that then. So next time someone is preparing Yorkshire puddings,
instead for me, I want the outside of a Greg sausage roll.
It's the same.
It's semantics.
This is semantic.
It's the same flavor.
But I think, are you going to go with your roasties for the side?
Because this sounds different.
Well, do I only have one side?
So here's what I'm going for.
I'll kind of just give some honourable junctions with this as well.
Yeah.
Another one lasted. Yes. Another honourable junction. Coals. Can I just give some honourable junctions with this as well? Yeah. Another one last.
Another honourable junction.
Coles, can I do this?
Coles, honestly, because I think you...
Can I do it with the microphone towards you?
Yes, Coles Pistachio Guacamole, if you have that.
Do you know what I'm talking about?
Coles, KOL, Mexican restaurant...
Oh, yes, of course.
In London, you know London.
Amazing.
Have you had that?
I'm not sure I've had that.
I've not been there for a while, so I don't think I've had the pistachio guacamole.
Is that because you can't get in?
So is that my size? Am I only allowed that many sides?
What are you pitching?
20 KFC hot wings. Is that not okay?
What?
20 KFC hot wings.
Hang on. So you roast potatoes, your roast potatoes, Yorkshire puddings,
pistachio guacamole from Coal and 20 KFC hot wings.
Yeah, because you want the crunch.
I think, oh yeah, you said you want the crunch at the top.
But that's, that's, could we, we're allowed two of those.
Will we?
Let's hear about the Hot Wings first.
So the Hot Wings, there are two types of Hot Wing.
There's the Radius and Ulna,
do you know the two little thin bones?
Oh yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
And there's the Humerus.
Yeah. The big drumstick you want.
The flat or the drum?
I'm going to go with the drum.
Yeah.
So I'd like, ideally, if you can get to the bag quick enough,
you can get all the drumsticks out, you know, the drumstick wings,
20 KFC Hot Wings, please.
Why KFC?
Because it's so good, because you can drive through,
you don't even have to do eye contact with anyone,
you don't have to put your clothes on.
You can drive through.
I should tell you that you do. And anyone listening, you do have to put your clothes on. Put your clothes on. Put your clothes on them, you don't have to put your clothes on. You can drive through. I should tell you that you do.
Anyone listening, you do have to put your clothes on.
Put your clothes on them.
Put your clothes on them.
You don't have to do the eye contact.
You just go in and you get them through a window
into your car, James, like that.
Onto the front seat.
You can eat them while you're driving.
But they're also very good.
I think James was asking why you like them taste-wise
rather than he didn't want to have it explained to him
what a drive-through is.
Yeah, I know what a a drive-through is.
I know what a goddamn drive-through is, but I was wondering why they are your favorite hot wings.
Because they are delicious. What makes them... Because they have got exactly the right amount
of seasoning, they've got the right amount of heat, so there's just... That really... Honestly,
there are very few places on earth where you get that balance of heat just
right, where it's just a little bit of background warmth. You know, just enough stimulation,
but not hot. You're not scared of rubbing your eyes after eating a KFC hot wing.
Bice-wise, but spice level-wise, would you serve those in Mowgli? Or would that get rid of the kids
in the end? No, no, no, that chemo's a little bit hotter than that.
So you're right. You're a hot guy. Yeah, because it's a funny thing, isn't it? Cause it's almost like that white pepper heat.
I feel it's almost, it's not a chili heat,
which is more front of the mouth aggressive.
This is a kind of heat.
This is a more bring you into the realms of heat kind of heat.
A warming heat.
But they're just brilliant.
Like honestly, the crunch on them,
the flavor of that batter, there is,
and they're so, you can get them at any time, anywhere. That is an amazing thing. I live in Birkenhead, do you know what I mean? So no,
Birkenhead is... I know what you mean by you live in Birkenhead. So, you know, in the way that I
often listen to you two, you talk about Deliveroo, delivering these extraordinary things to your
doorstep, I can get dominoes and that's it where I live. So the KFC Hot Wing, the KFC is a beacon of hope
to me. My palate needs things like this and I know I can drive through it anytime and
that's sanity. So they matter a lot to me. Are you picking two of these for me?
Well, I don't know. It's a discussion, I guess, because I would say you seem more passionate
about the KFC Hot Wings and the roast potatoes, whereas the pistachio guacamole and the Yorkshire puddings seem to like,
but maybe they don't ignite the same fire.
Do you know, I think you're absolutely right there, James.
Yeah. I think you're absolutely right there.
It's the roast puddings and the KFC Hot Wings, I think.
Well, hold on. The roast puddings?
Should I say roast potatoes?
Yeah, yeah, roast potatoes, yeah.
Sorry. It's the roast potatoes and it's the KFC hot wings.
I thought you were sneakily getting a third option in there.
But I say roast puddings, I can have both of those.
I do love a roast. I do love a Yorkshire hot wings.
It's the roast puddings and it's the guacamole hot wings.
Yeah.
Dream drink.
Oh, God, right.
Guess what I order a mogley to drink each time I go in there? I can tell you what you drink. You, God. Guess what I order? Mowgli to drink each time I go in there. I
can tell you what you drink. You can tell me. You don't get a beer there. Do you get one
of the cocktails? Yeah. Okay. Is it a mocktail? Yeah. Is it a chauffeur's cocktail? Do you
get the Twister? No. Do you get the Sweet Delhi? No. Do you get the Chyram Sling? No.
Give me the colour. Browny orangey. Oh, you get the chai. Oh, you get the cola, the cinnamon cola.
You get the cinnamon cola.
Yeah, that's a really good drink.
I'm so glad that you...
I'm so glad you've even been.
I honestly wasn't expecting you to, honestly.
I love it.
You know that a lot of people like it.
You don't really well with it.
Mum did for a while.
I did not say...
You just get your head down and do not presume that is really nice that you that you've
been there. So can I tell you my drink? So you get the cinnamon coke, cola. Yes. You notice that
I'm not done any Indian food or any Murghlu food. This is not about this. This is about me
disinhibitedly telling you what I like. Do you remember bell goes many years ago? No.
I like a banana beer. Do you know if I'm going to have to do alcohol?
You don't have to. Okay. Can I tell you my drink that I would have that's not alcohol?
Yes. Do you know,
Sugiri? This is a shout out to Sugiri TS, probably UJRI Sugiri. Japanese kind of match a drinky kind
of place. There's one in Dessert Alley in Chinatown. It's fantastic. Cannot recommend it highly enough. I'm so glad you picked it.
With the ice cream, you can pick the strength of the matcha.
How much matcha you want in it? It's good. I go big.
Yeah, they're phenomenal. But what I love about them is that they also saw fit to open in Liverpool.
That means, honestly, it means a lot to me when brands that do well in London choose to go,
you know, to rather than just staying in London, take their outfits up to the north.
It's a really big deal. So they've opened in Liverpool, but they do this thing called a
kinako-koromitsu latte. And kinako-koromitsu is basically date molasses and roasted ground soybeans.
Yes. It's so good. It's one of those drinks that you drink. I know it's like a milkshake. Okay, date molasses and roasted ground soybeans.
Yes.
It's so good.
It's one of those drinks that you drink.
I know it's like a milkshake.
Okay. So I have it.
Oh, Latte, because it's, oh, James, I is so,
because it's a little bit umami.
It's a little bit slow.
I'm not going to go so far as to say salt,
but it's that roundness from the soybeans,
the depth of sweetness from the date molasses, you know,
and then it's toned down and it comes, you know, it's banded in colour when it's first made because of the different weights of the
different liquids within it. It's a beautiful, beautiful thing. It's just one of those drinks
that goes into your body and your body again puts its arms around it because it's so phenomenal.
Well, we love Kinnecoe anyway because of Shackville Yew. Best dessert in London. Kinnecoe French toast.
anyway because of Shackfield U. Best dessert in London, Kinneco French toast with Microsoft serve.
I need to go and try that.
It's pretty special, but I need to try this.
I need to try this drink.
This drink sounds great.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Honestly, highly, highly recommend it.
And this is your dream drink.
This is a dream drink, but I do, yeah.
Is this just for this course?
So here's another loophole that some people,
including ourselves, have employed,
is that if you want to,
you can assign a different drink to each course and get a bunch of different drinks. So can I do this? Because
I really do love, but I do love a banana beer. So trappist white beer and I'm not a big drinker.
So my parents were big drinkers. And so in the way that I wasn't allowed beef, when I was eight,
I was probably allowed Midori, Baileys and fags.
Honestly, there was no, you could, because they drank a lot.
And so I think, because I grew up with alcohol, I got to the point where I said, actually, I'm really not bothered about it anymore. You know, why, why, why do it?
And I think as a child protection barrister, honestly, you see the damage it does. So,
I just think I've got an addictive personality
when it comes to food.
I probably would be off my face all the time
if I was into drink as well.
So I don't, but one of my killies heels
and one of those things that if I saw it on the menu
I'd have to order it and I couldn't stop drinking would
are those trappist banana beers.
So they used to do them in Belgo and it's just,
it's a kind of soft soapy beer.
It's a really good white spear.
You know, so it's a really good Belgian white beer, which is just gorgeous anyway.
And then it's got that banana flavour to it.
Does it actually taste like proper banana?
It does taste a bit of proper banana.
It does, it tastes, so I have a very unrefined palate when it comes to alcohol.
I would like to further refine my palate when it comes to why I'm not going to try to eat
hard to be honest, because it gets you hammered. But this is not just like a banana-flavored beer. This is
whatever, brewed with fruit in the way that they do. God, if you like bananas, I love bananas.
Is it quite a strong beer? I think it's about 4.8.
Okay. So some of those Belgian beers are like 10, 12% or something. They go mad for it.
So for me, that's strong.
So for me, one of those and I'd be completely gone.
But it's not super strong.
It's not about the strength of it, I think.
I think it's about that fine brew that it is really delicious.
So that's something perhaps I would have that with my dessert cheese.
But what the fuck?
I know.
Perhaps I'll just have that to sweeten the bitter pill at the end of the day. my dessert cheese. Did what? The fuck? I know. Don't you even care.
Perhaps I'll just have that to sweeten the bitter pill at the end of the day.
I swear to the...
High Christ.
So we are moving on to the dessert now.
Now look, I hope you've just been winding me up for a laugh.
You've mentioned enough sweet things along the way.
We have banana beer.
That latte's probably got a bit of sweetness to it. For my desert, so I honestly don't have a sweet tooth.
It's awful. And I'm looking you straight in the eye when I say that.
I really don't have a sweet tooth.
I have a bit of an intolerance to chocolate, to cocoa.
So I think because I've not been able to have much chocolate all my life,
it kind of wins you off sweet.
OK, I'm not going.
This is your mate that we bought them.
Got them all because she's your mate. It's complimentary, though. It's because Ed has and I'm not. This is your mate that we bought. I've got one because she's your
mate. It's complimentary though. It's because Ed has and I haven't. It works quite well.
But do you know what? I'm not going to go cheeseboard just because of his little face.
You shouldn't have. He's absolutely done you there, nature. Does anyone dare go
cheeseboard with your face? Absolute pricks. Not for a while, so you're not going cheeseboard?
I'm going to go, okay, have you been to Hefure, those Japanese souffle pancakes? Have you had those?
Have you had those? I've had some in Tokyo, yeah, place in Tokyo.
Okay, there is a place and it's a kind of hole in the wall on Shastri Avenue. And it's a hook and it's called HF, A-U-R-E, H-E-F-O-R-A.
Anyway, Japanese souffle pancakes. So they are a pancake, but they're extremely risen.
They're such a big thing in Japan that you know those kind of cuddly toys, they make cuddly
toys of them. They're so beautiful. And onto them, they put things like, so there'll be five flavors.
And the one that I like is the Biscoff one.
So it's a Biscoff sauce with Biscoff biscuits, but you can have those little
tapioca balls on as well, which is delicious.
But these are so whipped, James, that so they're a pancake.
They're not overly sweet.
You can imagine the kind of American pancakes.
I don't like those.
I like a crepe.
They make them by hand in the cellar.
And you will see, you will see one of the chefs
just beating the hell out of this batter
like the magic porridge pot kind of thing,
just beating for ages.
There's no hurry in this.
There's always a queue outside this place,
which is where the pickpocket circle,
but you will run the gauntlet of losing your iPhone
for these pancakes.
So they then cook them on a griddle
and they rise really high, but they
are so angelically aerated inside, I can't tell you. So they're real souffle pancakes,
but then you've got the heft and the creamy saltiness of the biscoff sauce on top and
the biscoff biscuits or whatever. They do them with strawberries, they do them in matcha.
There's only a limited flavor. There are many places that have started to do that, actually,
in Chinatown or around Soham, around the West End,
but I have to say, of all of them,
it's a furet, I think, that is the best.
And is that, again, it's that uncompromising,
I'm going to take my time whipping this.
You can see her making the batter with real ingredients,
you know, whatever eggs, whatever they put in it,
and whipping it in the cellar, and then bringing it up.
That really artisanal way of doing it, but cues and cues outside. So very often, I think if you go in there,
there are these people called bloggers. Bloggers. Are you a blogger?
I'm not a blogger. No.
You see these bloggers. I don't really know what it is.
It might mean vlogger.
You're a standard comedian, aren't you?
Yes.
There's a lot that's happening. I mean, there was a lovely description of the food, by the way, Nisha.
It's absolutely delicious.
There's a whole bunch of things that, you know, we would normally pick someone up on,
but we just let you run with it.
I don't know what the magic porridge pot is.
I heard you make a sound when Nisha said magic porridge pot.
The magic?
It's that you moved on to there being pit pockets around,
which I don't know how many pit pockets
I'm in London these days.
Maybe an old times, an old of a time.
No, no, no, that is still a thing.
That is still a thing.
Do you know what's crazy?
It's that spot.
Honestly James, that spot on Shaspley Avenue is so bad for it.
So when you're queuing in the therapy queue,
people will come up and tell you just watch your phone.
It's in the center of town, you know, the West End.
What's magic porridge pot? Magic porridge pot is a children's story. It's one of those
old ladybird books. Does anyone around the table know? I don't remember magic porridge
pot. And she has a pot, a magic pot, and it makes an infinite amount of porridge. And
she says cook little pot, cook and it'll start to create this beautiful porridge that overflows. And in the end, it drowned the whole village. And then you have to stay,
you have to say, James, to the pot, stop little pot, stop. And it's only then that it's stopped.
But it was one of those ladybird books with these beautiful, are you totally going to edit this
out? No, this is going to be the video clip that Ben puts out.
going to be the video clip that Ben puts out. Okay, can I tell you any of your viewers or whatever you call your audience over the age of 40, it's going to mean something to them.
Everyone knows what that means. Everyone knows what that means. The magic porridge pot is a very
famous children's story. The lady is making the pancakes. It's like the magic porridge pot is a very famous children's story. And it's that. Yeah.
The lady is making the pancakes. It's like the magic porridge pot.
Do you know, it is a little bit ed because it's that.
So there is an image.
There is an image in the book and she's beating.
You know, there are those iconic images in children's books like Hans Green,
whatever, and she's got this big, beautiful part and she's beating this
beautiful porridge and it's that set.
Anyway, it evoked that in me.
But forget that. But she's not overflowing and drowning the whole chaff.
Take the pickpockets out. Yeah. But then it does. Then it does overflow and even that looks delicious. Even that looks delicious. Yeah. And can I get an ice cream side? Can I just do one?
Hammer and Bull Johnshan. Yeah. And that is going to be the Tahini and Date Molasses Ice Cream from Honey
& Co. Oh yeah. Highly recommended if you haven't had that. So I love that we had the build up of
I don't have a sweet tooth and you've gone for pancakes with biscoffs on top and Date Molasses
Ice Cream. Yeah. Yeah, because you see that's the thing is they're on the same. I know you were
checking me. No. You were just checking. You were never even considering a cheese board. Can I tell
you honestly I haven't got a sweet tooth.
And what I was really toying with,
but I didn't think you'd allow it was,
you know, the little chef,
do you remember the pineapple with the gammon underneath it?
That is actually what I would have loved for my dessert.
Oh, Nisha, I wish you'd put,
I wish you'd put gammon and pineapple.
I tell you something, honestly,
gammon and pineapple, that is my idea of a heavenly dessert.
What does that? You get a lovely, you get a lovely bit of pineapple. You can butter it, butmon and pineapple. That is my idea of a heavenly dessert. What dessert? You get a lovely bit of pineapple.
You can butter it, but you grill it.
Lovely.
Then you put a lovely grilled gammon steak on top.
Yeah.
Flip it over.
That is a good dessert.
Yeah, why don't you just take the pineapple out
and put it straight on top of the gammon?
Yeah.
Why don't you just take the gammon out,
put it straight in the bin?
Because this is a dessert.
Ha ha ha ha. I wish you'd put Gamin and pineapple.
You can get things like bacon and maple scones for dessert.
Listen, I like pineapple together. I'm working on this podcast saying that I like it.
It's not a pudding, it's not a dessert.
I agree with you. It's not technically a dessert.
Well, it's not even a dessert.
Emotionally, it can take you to dessert land. No, it can't. Yes, it's not technically a dessert. Well, it's not even a dessert. Emotionally, emotionally, it can take you to dessert land.
No, it can't.
Yes, it can, because it's sweet.
No.
And it's salty, and it's only as much as a bisque off anything, or a miso and tahini,
anything, you know what I mean?
What?
Dainty Nass isn't tahini.
What do you mean, not as much?
It's that savory, sweet play.
No, it's not.
Are you putting that in your starters?
No, it's not.
You know that's not true. Don't even lie.
It is because the sweetness from the pineapple and the saltiness from the...
Meat is not a dessert. The meat, that's incidental. No, it's not.
You're just talking textures now. You're just talking textures now.
I'm talking the main bulk of the dessert that you've just chosen.
Those are just words. Is it meat? Is it gammon steak?
Well, I think luckily Nisha's chosen Biscoff Japanese pancakes and Tahini and date molasses
ice cream.
Let's go with that.
Let's go with that because it's going to get you less anxious about it.
Do you want a little ramekin of gammon and pineapple on the side?
I'd like a small side plate of that.
Just a side plate of a little bit of pineapple and gammon.
It's a rare thing.
You don't see it in places, James, anymore.
And that's why I just think it's something that you celebrate.
And I couldn't put it in my starters. Celebrators is not in places anymore. I'm glad they've made that decision. I hope
the little chef goes bankrupt. I'm pretty sure it has. Oh, yeah, good. I'm glad it has
the little chef grew up. If they're serving those as desserts there, they're not. It's
not a dessert. I'll let you have it as a little side on the side on the desert. Yeah. I hope
that while
you're eating it all the pickpockets have absolutely written. They take everything from you while you're
eating that. That's done. Disgusting. And we'll read your menu back to you now. See how you feel
about it. Water. You would like the plum flavour drinking vinegar. Pop it on with your bread.
You want a bread basket of pandedocayhole, Irish soda bread and the inside of a croissant.
Start, spaghetti, a richie de meeeeeeeer.
Main, fish head hot pot from PangPang. Side dish, your own roast potatoes and 20 KFC hot wings.
Drink, Kanako Kouromitsu Latte. Dessert, Japanese souffle,, bisque off from Hefeure and a trappist banana
beer to help you have a dessert. And I will let you have with the dessert the side of
gammon and pineapple. I'm not happy about it, but I feel like you clearly, you did use
the phrase it would be your dream. And if I don't let you have that, then that's bad
form. So I will let you have that as the side, but not happy about it at all.
This is all about breaking down those old structures and you've done that beautifully by
allowing me that. Thank you very much, Nisha. Are you happy with your menu?
That's my dream menu. That's my dream menu. I love it. There's at least three things that I've
got to go and try now. I think this is going to be a big recommendation fest for a lot of people.
I think a lot of people are going to be taking those recommendations.
Yeah.
It's a rallying call for the hot pot.
Yeah.
It's a rallying call for the hot pot.
Then job done.
Thank you.
Well, there we are, James.
Always love to be here with you when you properly meet someone
for the first time. Love, Nisha. Brilliant talking about food.
Yeah. Fantastic.
Really knows our stuff. Loves food. Huge passion for it. Obviously, we love our restaurants.
And then also is just goes off on one quite a lot.
Yeah. I loved it. I love Nisha.
Brilliant.
Thank you, Nisha, for coming on.
And thank you for not saying the secret ingredient.
Thank you for not saying kangaroo meat meant that we got to continue talking in the dream
restaurant.
Here, your full menu.
Yes.
Do go and get Nisha's new book, Bold.
And why not go and grab 30-minute moguli and meat-free moguli as well?
And if you're near a moguli restaurant, chances are you might be, because they're all over the UK, do pop in to oneowgli as well. And if you're near a Mowgli restaurant, chances are you might be because they're all over the UK.
Do pop into one of those as well.
Bombs away.
Bombs away.
James, thank you for a wonderful episode.
Hey, thank you Ed.
A real pleasure.
Thanks for bringing one of your friends in
and look forward to the big Chris episode.
Of course, thank you for bringing one of your friends in,
Paul Rudd.
We've got different friends. Thank you, Benito, for a wonderful episode.
Yes, thank you, Benito. Good job. This is a good job, man.
Thank you very much. We'll see you next week. Bye.
Hello, I'm Sarah Pascoe. And I'm Carrie-Adloid. You might remember us from the peak of our careers, appearing on the excellent Off Menu podcast. It's the greatest we've ever felt
and we know we'll never achieve that again. But if you remember those episodes and enjoyed
what we did, you might be a fan of our book choices and our new comedy podcast, Sarah and Carrie-Ed's Weirdo's Book Club.
Imagine us not talking about food, but talking about books.
But with the comedians you know from off-menu, like Nish Kumar, John Kern, Sophie Duker and
more.
We're not copying them, we're doing our own thing.
It's totally different.
It's about books.
It's about books.
There's no genies involved.
It's a space for the lonely outsider to feel accepted and appreciated.
I'm just like James A. Custer's bedroom.
Eww!
A place for the person who'd like to be in a real book club, but doesn't like wine or nibbles.
You can read along, share your opinions, or just skulk around in your raincoats like the weirdo you are.
Thank you for reading with us. We like reading with you.
We've got the ending one as well.