The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds - 623 - Bill "Spaceman" Lee
Episode Date: March 5, 2024Comedians Gareth Reynolds and Dave Anthony examine baseball player Bill "Spaceman" Lee Tour Dates Redbubble Merch Sources Fitbod...
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Check check do you want to check again? No, it was actually like the worst checker
It's might be the worst thing I've ever gone through and I just had COVID so it might literally be the worst thing
I've ever gone through but the mic check with you just now. Well, look you guys who are out there
Without your masks and run around like it's the flu and then there's people like me who take safety
It's over safety precautions over and care about my fellow man.
Let me tell you how I know that COVID's over.
I got it.
COVID.
COVID is good.
Yeah.
Well, I just thought of that.
Run for COVID.
Run for COVID.
All right.
I don't like, you're a hard guy to compliment.
You're a hard guy to compliment because you don't find the way, you don't find the
demurred path.
Yeah, I'm better than you.
You can't, yeah, it's this is what the, this is what it is.
All right, stating facts.
It's bad.
Facting it up is what we call it.
Yeah, this is what happens.
Are we doing a factor ad?
Yeah, we're going to fact town right now.
Yes.
Gareth and I are both using what people in the business call FitBod.
It is an app that helps with your workouts.
It's pretty essential to working out at this point for me
because you do different things, right?
You're doing your, whatever, your lifting weights,
you're doing your back, you're doing your legs,
you're doing blah, blah, blah.
It helps you keep track of all that.
It helps you keep track of what muscles are recovered
and which ones aren't.
And just general fitness, all of it, all in the app.
Which I find very helpful because as you get older, you get injured more.
And I do that a lot where I, you know, I'm one of these, I'm a buy guy.
I like to buy, not in the sense that I play the field, but in the sense that I, you know,
I'll be like, get the buys going and then I'll be like, why is my buy hurt?
And then people are like, oh, you look like a weirdo. Am Io. Am I talking you're talking is it going good or how is it going? It's weird
But what it does is it helps you recognize? It just keeps you on a path where you're not overworking things
That's right, and it'll be and you there's like a little thing you hit on here
It goes you want to work your back you hit a little button and, here's your back exercises. Like right here's your chest exercises.
Here's the things you're going to do today.
So I find that kind of stuff really helpful.
It makes the workout quicker.
Take your shirt off.
Nope.
Take your shirt off.
That's upsetting.
Nobody wants to see that.
People.
Show us what's up.
Look, the world's already bad enough.
Is it not?
It may, basically my goal's right now are to lose weight.
So that's what I'm going for. And this has helped me. This has helped me keep on
track and just come. Yeah. It's motivating. It's helpful. It really is. 100%. So we obviously
here at the DALP recommend FitBod. Add FitBod to your workout essentials. Join FitBod today
to get your personalized workout plan. Get 25% off your subscription or try
the app free at fitbod.me slash dollop. That's F-I-T-B-O-D dot emmy slash dollop.
But we should mention that we have a tour coming to Australia.
We do have a tour coming to Australia. So we're going everywhere all over Australia.
We're hitting the big cities. You can go to dolloppodcast.com.
Those tickets are not live just yet for people
who are not on Patreon.
Wednesday.
But if you are on Patreon, you can get a ticket right now.
Might be a good reason to join Patreon.
If not, by the way, a lot of great, so much great content
on Patreon.
If you're joining Patreon because you
want to jump in on the early tickets, it's
probably better to join a couple days before when we announce it instead of joining and
then 12 minutes later sending me a message saying you didn't get an email.
Because I can actually see when you joined.
I don't agree.
I don't agree at all.
I support the people.
I am against Dave and I do support what people are doing.
But if not, tickets will go live Wednesday for the rest of you Australians.
And go sign up.
It's May 13th through the 24th.
That's the tour.
Yeah, all the cities, all the big cities.
And we're sorry to break Hobart's heart, the whole heart.
We're sorry we're not coming to New Zealand.
And Darwin, you didn't make the cut.
But you come to us.
Darwin once again, didn't make the cut. But you come to us. Darwin, once again, didn't make the cut.
Next time we should do one of those.
Darwin, get rid of your crocodiles, and I shall cometh.
Again, we're on different pages.
Gareth, 30% of people who go to tour in Darwin
get attacked by crocodiles.
30%. Nope. Yeah crocodiles. 30%.
Nope.
Yeah.
30%.
Nope.
December 28th, 1946.
Year of our lord, J-Town, who uh...
Can I point out something?
This is no longer a bi-weekly history podcast. You've made the swap at some point. We went from
It's a from that it's a Jesus podcast and
No, and J town is coming out with some new denim wear now
Denim shorts denim
Coats just the whole denim headband, the whole denim thing,
because it's it's rad and people are digging it right now.
Well, I definitely think a denim headband.
Yeah, denim.
Zana, aesthetically, a good look for sure.
William Francis Lee, the third was born in Burbank, California.
Well, Bill Francis Lee, Bill Lee.
OK, nothing's coming to mind. OK.
You I don't think you'll know this guy.
Bill's anyone with a third, though, troubles me.
Yeah. Bill's grandfather played baseball for the Hollywood Stars
in the 1900s in Los Angeles. A lot of people.
OK. A lot of baseball fans
would know who that is. The rest of you don't.
I don't. It was really the big West Coast team before the giants and Dodgers moved from these really
Yeah, the Hollywood stars were the the one and all the Hollywood people came to watch the games and the ballpark was
Right next door to the farmers. What a hot what a hot dog cost back then right right next to the farmers market
Where pan Pacific Park is now.
That was once a ballpark.
So the ballpark was called the Gilmore Ballpark named after the Gilmore Gas Company.
And that is also who Bill's grandfather, when he wasn't playing second base for the
Hollywood Stars, he worked for the Gilmore Gas Company.
Okay, interesting.
And their symbol was the lion.
So the Gilmore Gas Company gave him two lion cubs to raise
because he would drive around.
We're off to a tough beginning.
He would drive around the state opening new gas stations.
You know what I love about when people have exotic animals that they shouldn't
when they start young? Yeah. I mean, like, it's basically just like kittens. Yeah. And
you're like, yeah, it's your balling is in your future. They never change. Nope. And
when they start to change, like, you check my friend. I don't have a bill anymore. Bill's
gone. Bill's dead. So they lived in his backyard in North Hollywood.
He would travel up and down the state when he went to open the new gas stations
with the lion cubs in his car.
But then it's like Ricky Bobby.
But then Mobile Oil buys Gilmore and Mobile's
symbol is horse.
So they're like, you can't have the lions.
It doesn't make sense anymore to travel around with the lion.
We just assume that they were euthanized or just put in a circus.
He gave them to the Griffith Park Zoo.
Oh, OK. But he was like, only if I can come visit them all the time whenever I want.
And they said, absolutely.
I like that. And that's that's better than what I would think.
They were like four or five at that point. But then when he, the first time he went to
visit, when he left, they started roaring and yelling because they were upset he was
leaving. And then all of the animals in the whole zoo flipped out and it was like a scream
fast. And so the zookeeper was like, no, you can't come back anymore. That's crazy. Like
this place just went. What I love about Zeus is that solution, which is basically like the animals
are experiencing emotion and we're going to need to put a stop to that.
They're going through a pining and no, thank you.
We can't have them enjoying.
What it's done is it's made the other animals want to feel and we need to
put that fire up before it starts.
So, uh, Bill's other grandfather played football at USC, uh,
then became president of USC.
So the athletic family, right?
Um, the grandfather also was the president of a water district.
And he was a pilot because he had fought in the war.
And so he'd take Bill up when he surveyed
Dams and stuff and do barrel rolls with like an eight-year-old Bill in the plane do loop-de-loops
Just give just give Bill control of the plane when he was like nine and be like alright flyer
No, sounds like frontier now. Yeah
Bill's aunt Annab, was a huge baseball player. She was a lefty pitcher who played in the All American Girls Professional Baseball League,
which they had in World War II.
In 1944, she pitched a perfect game, which was the first in professional women's sports.
Bill later.
And is that that happened in World War II because their men were off to war and they want we talked about
Yeah, a lot of dids were not playing. Yeah
So Bill later said that his aunt was the best athlete in the family and she taught him had a pitch
Okay, his his style was exactly like hers both lefties not not a fast thrower, but a good pitcher
Sure, they were they used to be called Coney Thumber.
Coney Thumbers.
Coney Thumbers. Coney Thumbers.
Now that is basically same because they had Coney
pitches, they were more like knuckleball.
So you call it a Coney Thumber.
They're more cunning as opposed to now, I think Coney Thumbers means something.
It's a movie. I don't think you should watch.
I actually just look it up and I did go to U-Porn.
So I just just corroborate that.
So basically it was you would use your thumb to make the ball break different ways.
Now, let's describe what you just did with your thumb because it certainly is not.
Well, I don't want to get the ladies excited, but yeah.
Oh, hit it.
Oh.
Suddenly, suddenly I'm a Dane Cook a bit.
Sweet.
Can I mute you?
Yes.
Okay, I'm going to figure that out.
So basically the entire family played baseball. Bill's grandmother broke her leg, sliding into second
when she was 47 years old when she was trying to stretch
a single into a double.
47 back then.
47.
That's 58.
Not just 47, trying to stretch a single into a double
when you're 47.
You take the base.
You'd be happy.
First.
Don't try to run.
47.
Yeah.
Running is out of the question.
No.
So slow walk.
Slow walk to slow walk to first hang out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So at some point when he was a kid, they moved to
San Rafael in Northern California, which is
North San Francisco, literally over the hill from
where I grew up is where he lived
He went to Terra Linda high school while he's there
He's playing basketball. He broke his his middle finger. So which caused him to throw a thing. He's a cunny Thummer
Garrett
What that's this is not a cunny. This is one of the things that made him a cunny Thummer
What? That's this is not a Cunney.
This is one of the things that made him a Cunney Thummer.
His middle finger?
Well, he couldn't, he couldn't use his middle finger for a while.
So he started throwing with the other fingers and using his index finger and his thumb more.
Ah, so he's a Cunney pointer.
A Cunney pointer.
Also, a player slid into him really hard at second base one time and it hurt his knee.
So then he couldn't, he couldn't step hard on his knee so he learned to throw
with mostly his arm.
Is that a problem?
Well he-
The problem is not being able to use your leg and the support.
I mean it's a way of saying that all these injuries led to him throwing differently than
other people.
Yeah and people should understand this is before doctors were invented.
There were no doctors.
Yeah that's not how it worked.
If you-
You were just like, well can you just use the one? Yeah, if you hurt a leg, they would be like, go see the
dog over there and the dog would sniff you. Yeah, yeah. And then they'd be like, well,
I think it's broken. How'd it go? Well, he barked. All right, that'll be $450. Jesus Christ.
Yeah, it's the bark rate. Quote.
This is when he heard his like quote, they wanted to operate and then my dad took me
to this really heavy drinking bone doctor who said, oh hell, we'll just shoot him up with
quarter zone and put a barrel cast on it and let it quiet down for a week.
Man, it's just a drunk bone doctor. It's awesome.
Yeah. Well, that's like the 1700s.
That is fantastic.
So a median drunk is a feature, not a glitch.
So for the rest of his baseball life, he had a torn medial meniscus.
Wow.
So he landed really light on the right foot and then would fall off the mound
to try to keep pressure off of it.
Wait, every pitch?
Oh, yeah, just sometimes his whole career, he would fall off the mound when he pitched.
Fall off the mound.
That used to be a thing that you would see a lot more in baseball.
A guy would throw the ball like you mean he kind of does it and then like an extra step or two forward.
We should explain to international listeners.
The mound is about, you know, six inches.
It's not like a...
I think it's 12.
A berm.
I think it's 12 inches.
Yeah, 12 inches.
It might be even higher.
But anyway, you throw the ball and you're supposed to stand there in a position to catch
the ball if it's hit back at you.
But there's some guys that throw really hard
and they'll kind of fall sideways.
So off the mound, they're, they're momentum
to take them off, but if you can't land on your foot,
you do that anyway.
Sure.
So that's how he was.
Uh, so he also, like I said, threw completely with his arm,
not his body.
So he doesn't throw hard, but the ball moves a lot.
Dennis Eckersley, who would go on to be really fast, great picture,
would say to Bill later, quote, boy, you can throw a pus.
Mm hmm. Yeah.
How does one?
It's good.
But Eckersley also said, you throw salad.
I throw cheese
Mm-hmm. These are all things and does anyone
Understanding what he's doing now people just let him talk and they stare at him
Buddy you're now you can eat buffet tonight
Mr. Let me tell you your mutton chops with a clean cut look at you. You're throwing you're throwing milk and I'm throwing sausages
Yeah, boy. I've got a real sausage hand.
So Bill's very smart and he goes to USC on an academic scholarship.
Boy, you're going to USC on an academic scholarship. I just did a map.
That's yes. Hey, Bill, Dennis, go ahead and sit down.
We understand what you were saying, but.
Hey, boy, I'm gonna sit in the chair.
You're gonna go upside down to the king's throne.
All right, Dennis, thank you.
Buddy, you go to the bathroom.
I just sharded my shorts.
That's kind of not...
Well, what you just described was you not have sharded in my shorts okay
yeah but a year a half off sale I'm bargain been fingers okay all right it
was really good talking to you we understand where everybody buddy it was
great talking to you but I'm a whisper in a library what What? Mm-hmm.
Okay.
You're a handicapped placard.
I took up two spots at the save-on.
Yeah, I gotta be honest.
I have no idea what you tried to say this whole time.
You're bi-focals.
I'm looking through a broken pair of binoculars
in a mirror inside of a wizard's palace
outside of Manhattan
Where I rent a two bedroom apartment for my mistress where I've started a second family that I ain't told my original life about
And I'm studying gymnastics on the side, but not from a book. I've got a trainer here from Russia
We also got that area reserved for Saturday from 10 to 2 but another family showed up and we got into an argument
Predict a bunch of tennis balls and golf balls around there and figure someone should come
clean them up for the city.
Tennis.
That's the difference between us.
Are you on LSD?
You're on LSD.
I'm on eating toads.
All right.
Good talking to you.
All right.
You was good talking to you and as far as talking to me goes it was shouting down a well with a little baby inside of it
We better save her. Are you a fool? Hey, you'll peel back the curtain on me. Sometimes I don't know where I'm headed when I start
We know yeah
So he goes to USC on an academic scholarship. He's a big he's very into questioning authority
Okay question everything type of guy USC was on an academic scholarship. He's a big, he's very into questioning authority. Okay.
Question everything type of guy.
USC was really not his style, very stiff kind of place.
Quote, at USC you couldn't kiss the girls
because they had spoons in their mouths or their noses.
He picked up talking to the other guy.
I mean, what is that even?
Do you know what that means?
There's gonna be a lot of I don't know what that means in this.
It said we have no clue what he's talking about. Well, he's saying that I would only
is saying they're super, they're super rich. Oh, got you a spoon on their nose, spoon in
their mouth or their noses. So cocaine. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Allad Lad Jr. snaked my girlfriend from me and drama class he drove a Ferrari. I hated all that elitism
Okay, so I understand this one still strange obviously, but I understand it
Bell rooms with long distant runners who smoked a lot of pot and so he started
Smoking pot for the first time and very much enjoyed nice
That'd be a lifelong affair
Pot back then was horrendous to oh, yeah
So on the baseball team the coach do you remember when you use that you remember the
How much pot did you smoke in your life? You've never been a big pot? Yeah? No, I was for a while you used to have to get
You used to get stems and seeds in your weed
And you used to have to have a session when you first sit down and take the stems and the seeds out.
Oh, different types of weed. That was generally referred to as Mexican weed.
Or shwag. Shwag is what we call it.
Because in California we probably call it the Mexican weed.
But you also had tie sticks which had some seeds in it.
Like, it definitely was much more seedy back then.
But you could get it without seed. Like, there was definitely...
That didn't happen to me
so
So he's on the baseball team. He thinks he sees himself as a
Hitter and a pitcher, but the coach just sees him as a pitcher when he's a sophomore and only pitches him
So the next season he holds out
You know you have an interesting looking at face. Why do you think it's... Well, here's why. Holdout is normally for the professional athlete. The professional athlete
normally will have leverage with some sort of contract or something like that, and so they'll
hold out for a better deal or they'll hold out for a trade or they'll hold out for one of those
things. I don't know if... Ever? I'm trying to think of've ever I don't think I've ever heard of a college athlete holding out
because a college athlete normally would just transfer something like a coach is
Has all the leverage? Yes
So that's just so he holds out
Okay
Which is an amazing move amazing that is an amazing
Coaches by like my wires hurt.
He demands to be able to play first base also.
And the coach, the coach, they compromise
and the coach agrees to let him take batting practice
just to see like, like during the season
to like measure him up and see if he can hit. Right.
Like he's like, I'll compromise with you and allow you to do this thing.
Sure. So one day, bill arrives for a double header and he tells the coach
He arrives late he comes late for a double header
Which is two games back to back in one day and he's late
And so he tells the coach the dew on the ground and the acorns created this smell
He doesn't like so he came late after the dew had dried
So funny with a guy like this because sometimes he says crazy shit and then sometimes he says stuff like that
So you're trying to get a read on the guy
And then he just you know he comes up with that regular acorn do smell issue which we've all gone
I know I've missed a lot of things because of the way the dew and the acorns mix in the area absolutely
I know I've missed a lot of things because of the way they do in the acorns mix in the area. Yeah, absolutely
During one game bill called a meeting on the mound So he has all the place and again
I think we're I just would say again that it's not crazy for a catcher and a pitcher to talk
But a general meeting is a bit more rare and then the coach he brings everybody in and then he tells them that his lips are chapped
Mm-hmm. Yep. So again, if you're going to do it, it's probably for a reason
like that, which is important for everyone to know. A game.
Yeah. So something very related to the game strategy, something like that.
For how can you imagine getting everyone together?
What the hell is going on? What? You got something on this guy?
My lips are so dry.
I think it has something to do with that acorn.
Do you know anyone else?
Anyone else you got a bit of the dry lips?
No, um, what do you guys use to keep your lips moist if we're here talking about we're up here
It's baseball stuff. We're here. That's why we come to the mound. We come here to the mountain
I can't focus every time. I mean, I'm trying to get some of this skin off my lips and throw it on the ball a little bit
might give me an advantage, but
Are you moisturizing?
Are you trying to throw?
What's everyone, let's go around real quick, let's say, what's everyone using for moisture
moisture?
Nothing, I don't want to.
Is anyone using medicated stuff for their lips specifically?
No.
I'm just like, who sleeps through the window open?
Show of hands.
Okay, we're going back to the game.
We're going back to the game. We're going back to the game All right boys. All right
So he
He you know, he's not clearly not a normal dude on Halloween
He dressed in drag and went up to the Sunset Strip like just shit that people probably didn't do at the time
Right. He had a bunch of really slow moving pitches and a fastball. That's not that fast, but he moves it slow moving pitches and a fastball that's not that fast, but he moves.
Slow moving pitches is a hilarious like this guy's got that slow pitch.
Well, it could work out.
The coach says so that the previous team had a guy named Tom Sever on it,
who goes on to be one of the greatest pitchers of the era.
And he says the coach says that that Bill is a better picture than Tom Siever
at this point. So they go to the College World Series, Bill wins two games, they win the
College World Series. Okay, now Bill gets drafted in the 22nd round by the Boston Red Sox.
If you're drafted in the 22nd round, that's like saying, we don't need you. Yeah, right.
Yeah, I don't even know. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
I don't even know if they do 22 rounds anymore.
You'll get our caps.
Yeah. You could carry stuff.
He's on the first minor league team.
So right.
So to get to the major league team, you play through a series of minor league
teams up the ladder.
It is to get better.
So the first team minor league team he's on.
He's on it for two games because he pitches a no hitter and they move him up.
Oh, wow. OK.
So when he's playing on the double A team, he he marries
former Miss Alaska, Mary Lou during the game.
No, he should have.
Hey, guys, it kind of.
I'm going to get married right now.
Mary Lou, come on up to the mound. We're going to get I'm going to get married right now. Hey, Mary Lou, come on up to the mound.
We're going to get married.
I'm going to marry Mary Lou real quick.
Yeah, Mary Lou Helfridge, they had met
when he played summer ball during college in Fairbanks, Alaska.
And then they honeymoon in Mardi Gras, New Orleans,
because which is the worst place I could ever
think of to honeymoon.
But they did it. It's so funny because cuz I'm gonna be there like on the 13th
And I'm I haven't been there probably since I was like 27 and I'm like this is going to be a much different experience. Yes
Yeah, we really will
Yeah
Yeah, I'm not a fan anymore. It's just go the food is good. That's about it. That's food is great
It's the places like that you just like Vegas and like other places where you're like when when we go to Vegas
I wish people could see how we stay in Vegas because we stay in Vegas for
Literally the show. Yeah, we're gone the show. That's it. We don't stay overnight. That's it. No, we leave
so show. That's it. We don't stay overnight at the show. That's it. No, we leave. So he keeps questioning authority, Bill, which is not so good now that he's in professional
baseball situations.
Right.
Ketchakarleton Fisk, who would also go on to be a famous Hall of Fame catcher, was there
with him in the minors, said, quote, the prevailing Amazon...
Is it true they called him Fisk Biscuits or Fiskets?
Nope.
Okay. I think it's someone else. You definitely are thinking of someone else.
Who else would you be thinking of, by the way?
I think I'm thinking of my buddy Fiskets.
Quote, the prevailing atmosphere in Iowa was a whole lot of screening matches between Bill and
the manager. There was no way Bill would have anything to do with discipline or authority.
He resented being treated like a teenager with which most of the players were.
I had never met anybody from California before.
It was wild.
Everyone from California is that.
Not fucking minds.
They can't talk to them.
Still, even with the screening matches, he pitches well and he's brought up to the fucking minds. They can't talk to them. Still, even with the screening matches,
he pitches well and he's brought up to the major leagues,
the Red Sox, in June 1969.
Reporters immediately like him.
On his first tour of Fenway, he looks at the green monster
and asks, do they leave it there during the games?
We should point out to anyone listening internationally, the green monster is a slime creature that
lurks in the stands of the Boston Red Sox, a seating, and eats and kills fans and is
known to eat and spit out their bones during the game.
So the name, we just want to make sure that, I just want to make sure anyone listens to
the game. Don't be confused. It want to make sure that, I just want to make sure anyone listens to me.
Don't be confused.
It's a slime, a slime, an evil slime monster.
It's a green monster.
Continue. It's a green monster.
And the red size could play through.
Play through. They've lost four outfielders to it.
And it looks like the green monster
has probably eaten the left fielder.
We don't see him out there,
but there is a pile of bones in his stead,
which makes me believe that he's also gone down. So they're going to have to call someone else up to go out
there and figure this out.
It's actually just a really large wall that's very close to the field, basically. The journalists
are very happy to guy. The guy like that they're used to cliches. They like a guy that's going
to have some fun shit. The first game he pitches on June 25th.
He's a reliever at the end of the year.
He's one in three with a 4.5 e.
So that's OK. Right.
You give it 4.5 runs every nine innings.
Yeah. Oh, it's not great.
It's not great, but it's not terrible for your first year. First time.
OK. The next year he starts five games and he relieves in six.
And that year he gets his nickname,
which is the Spaceman.
Oh my Lord, yes.
Cause he's just nuts?
Yeah.
Cause he's just spacey.
Yeah.
The Spaceman is awesome.
It's a great nickname.
He better be coming out in astronaut outfits pretty soon.
He got to Rocket Man.
He got that from a teammate.
A teammate gave it to him.
He already he has a reputation of being eccentric at this point.
Not everybody likes him, right?
The the old olds are not into it.
Of course.
There's two old reporters for the Red Sox, Cliff Keen and Larry Claffin.
Picture the Muppet guys.
Yes.
And you know, Cliff Keen and Larry Claffin and then you realize Cliff, Claven, they
kind of maybe put those two together.
Oh, yeah.
Because they had a radio talk show together.
And from day one, they
hated Bill. And they thought baseball players, you look one way, you act one way, and that's
how you do the game. So their popular, the radio show is called Cliff and Claff. And
they, they just go after Bill the whole time he's there. They call him an imbecile, a goonhead, a drug addict, amongst just many other things. Goonhead's fantastic. That is really,
that works for me. Goonhead? He's a goonhead. Yeah, all day long, goonhead.
A goonhead. In May, Bill had to head to the Boston Army Base because he was in the reserve. So he played only a
couple months that year and then had to serve the rest of the year in the reserves.
And we want to thank him.
Yeah, thank you. He saved everything. His first full season is 1971, mostly as a reliever.
This time very, very, he does very well. 2.74 seven, four, ERA wins, nine games, loses two.
So that's very, very good.
There you go.
Yep.
The next year is only a reliever.
They missed the playoffs by half a game.
And when they, when they lose that game and they're, and they're out of the playoffs
there in Detroit and they lost when a player was running home and he just slipped
and fell down.
So.
Oh, Jesus.
Terrible way to lose.
Embarrassing.
So excited.
Quote, I was so upset how we lost and everybody was crying in the locker room.
And the manager really didn't care for me and he didn't use me enough and I was pitching
well.
I was walking to our bus when some Detroit
fans asked me to come party with them. So he's got a reputation. Fans are now like,
It's the space man.
Yeah, it's the space man. Everyone's like, this guy's fun, right? So his fans are like,
do you want to party? And I did. I ended up in Birmingham on some pool table, shit-faced
at four in the morning.
From, wait, oh, I thought it was, I mean, Alabama's the only Birmingham I know of. No, no, I from from wait oh I thought it was I mean
Alabama is the only I think there's I think it's gotta be in Michigan yeah
this one you could not have straight up this okay yeah oh we've stayed in Birmingham
it's actually close to where we usually go the Royal Oak oh Royal Oak yeah okay so
okay so he shit-faced at four in the morning on a pool table.
I don't know how I got back to the hotel,
but it was I was lit like a Christmas tree.
You shine on you crazy space.
Bill also at this point had a reputation for jumping out of hotel windows into pools.
That's just yeah, there's always one. Yeah.
This this is it's every time I stayed on a teller, I'm like, why can't you open the window a little bit more and then the legacy of men like this?
Yeah, it's Billy
Shopping yeah, and bands who threw shit out of the window. Yeah. Yes. Yes
1910 and people who took their own lives
Well, that was fun. I don't think the hotel should be should be allowed to make that decision for you. That was a fun addendum.
I'm here to kind of I'm the kind of color commentary guy.
So I kind of lighten the mood.
Yeah.
By the way, you'll just jump through it if you go ahead.
1973 is a really big season.
It's his his coming out season, right?
He becomes a starting pitcher.
He wins 17 games.
Yes, a 2.75 era. He makes the All-Star team.
OK. So before the game, the manager is talking to all the players and he says,
quote, if anybody doesn't feel capable of getting the other side out,
raise their hand and Bill raises his hand so he doesn't play in the game.
What? What a crazy thing to ask.
And what a crazy thing to say. No,
but it's like a coach thing where you just like you're basically give 100 percent, right?
Give it all your guy and he not expecting anyone to ever go. Yeah, those guys are really
good. Like so he doesn't play in the Elster game. Bill and Ketcher, Carlton Fisk become
the Union reps for the team.
They became very close.
Those two guys.
Is that the guy they called Fiskie Business?
And during games, Fisk would get in Bill's face as the catcher
and just yell at him to tell him to focus because he can.
And your lips are so.
Why do you keep your lips so moist?
He can have a hard time concentrating.
It seems like he he would like play frisbee.
He's a bit ruby a little bit
But not as but the other like a smart. Yes, but just the distracted nature of the room play frisbee
In when he's in the bullpen with the fans in the stands things like that. That's fun. Yeah, I like that
The him and Fisker close forever. So in August, the American League president finds a pitcher
for throwing a spitball.
So a spitball is when you lick your hand or whatever,
you get a little bit of moisture on there,
and then it helps you move the ball better when you throw it.
So it's...
How the hell is he got...
Why are his lips so moist to do something like that?
That guy's got that much saliva to spare.
Are you still using the skin, like you said, from your-
He's making it rain, yeah, I'm doing, I'm doing chap balls.
Jesus, that's terrible.
Yeah, I didn't realize that guy, man, I'll tell you what,
I just wish a guy like that would give me a little,
a little kiss before starting.
I could give him some of my dry and he could give me some of
his wet. Okay. We get on the same team. You got wet and dry.
So after the guy gets fine, Bill comes out and says, I've thrown a spitball before a
lot of pitches have thrown spitballs. And so fine everybody. If you're going to find
that guy, uh, Bill then says, Bill says he keeps a,ube of KY and his locker quote so do a lot of other
pictures around the league who throw a lot more than I do.
Hell, how long is that?
Hell if KY went off, jelly went off the market the whole California Angels pitching staff
would be out of baseball they haven't gotten fined.
Wow, what a crazy way to defend someone.
Just to be like, we're all using ball lube.
Yeah, basically, like nobody thinks that's real,
but that is real at the time, probably.
Two things about that.
Number one is that, man, that's awesome how long
KY's been around.
That is just great.
And the second is, how do they not turn that
into some sort of commercial partnership?
Yeah, right? I'm sure, yeah, they should have. Hopefully they weren't today, but yeah, they didn't.
During the 1974 season, as we covered in episodes 228 and 229, riots broke out
due to black students being bussed into white Boston schools.
Our president was of course on the side of the whites.
Bill supported the bussing.
He said, the judge who ordered the bussing was, quote,
the only guy in this town with any guts.
Wow.
That's so great.
So probably didn't go.
Now he's like the enemy in Southie, right?
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, for sure.
Local Congressman Albert Leo O'Neill responded and he wrote a letter to Bill and he just
sent it to Fenway Park.
Nice.
It was two pages long. It's like what a five-year-old. Yeah
Bill I'm gonna give you a piece of my mind postman. Will you take this to where he lives?
In the baseball stadium
It's two pages long and there's a lot of misspellings
Like he spent he spelled days DA Z instead of DA Y.
Is that not even he's so he's just combined our two days into one?
What?
Quote.
It's cute.
Each sentence containing more invective and verbal abuse and vitriol than the prior one.
He said Bill should keep his mouth shut and just focus on pitching.
And then he could pitch better than Bill.
Oh, what an idiot.
I mean, this is really like a guy from Southeague is a congressman.
Yes.
Like it's...
Dude, you don't even know what you're doing.
You got me in such a daze over all this.
I could pitch better than you with noodle arm.
You don't understand.
You got nothing, dude. You ain't fucking shit, okay?
You got nothing.
By the way, throw a fucking using KY on the ball.
KY is for your cork.
KY is for your cork.
It's for your cork and for hergine.
That's it.
Or maybe your ass.
This letter is terrible.
You're out of line, dude.
Turn over more on back.
So Bill just sends back a very short letter to the congressman. Dear Congressman O'Neill,
I believe you should be advised that some imbeciles using your stationery, sincerely. I did this the other day and I kind of regretted it because it was like this dude went nuts
on me.
But there was a guy, there was a guy at the NFL Combine who basically said he didn't
believe in space.
And when they were like, lie or whatever, he was just, his backup was crazy.
So whatever, I was scrolling through the comments to see, and this one guy was just like, why or whatever. He was just, his backup was crazy. So whatever, I was scrolling through the comments to see,
and this one guy was just like,
if you've never seen space, how do you know it's real?
Like, how can you even believe in it
if you've never even seen it?
And then I just go, yeah, exactly.
It's like your brain.
I've never seen it, so I don't believe it exists either.
And then this guy, like, he goes on and on,
and he, this is just some random dude.
And he's like, five responses to me, right?
And at the end he uses the wrong your for like, you're doing it.
So I just go, it's my favorite one where you just go,
you do the right your with an asterisk and man,
just really did not help matters.
Yeah. That's such a great way of what, so I can't see it. So how do I know what's there like it's like the Jaguar, right?
Oh, I never see the Jaguar seriously. I've never seen yeah, I've never seen Africa.
I mean, I still believe it to be real.
So the two radio guys, Cliff and Claff,
just keep raging out on the whole time. Oh, the bus.
I mean, the bussing thing must have drunk Cliff and Claff crazy.
Insane.
So teammates said, Bill saved Claff in once
when ex Red Sox pitcher, Gary Peters,
was going to beat the shit out of him and
And like he stops he stops this guy from getting beat up, but it doesn't fucking matter makes no difference
Claffin still attacks Keen once questioned how Bill's family could put up with his nighttime meanderings and
Bill's so fucking pissed he considers following a lawsuit
In the press box Keen would rant quote the guy is on flea powder or angel dust
Did Lee get a quarter go court his own shot in his shoulder or in the head like that's just how he's yeah, it's just
Flea powder is great. Yeah, right. That's a great one to call. Yeah
The next year 75 bill wins 17 games. So now he's won 17 games three years in a row.
And now he's known for the EFIS pitch, which is so if anybody's seen baseball,
you throw it super fast at the guy.
Well, it's the opposite.
You throw this crazy, high arcing, 50 mile an hour pitch.
That basically is something a child would throw.
And it's it's the ultimate change up
Yeah, like you're the person's like wait what what's happening and it overwhelms them
Yeah, completely breaks their brains and overwhelms them. He he starts calling it the leafess
They make the playoffs and
Bill starts game two of the world series. He leaves the game
They have a two to one lead in the ninth inning and they blow it He then starts game two of the World Series. He leaves the game, they have a two to one lead in the ninth inning and they blow it.
He then starts game seven.
They're up by three in the seventh when Bill,
they'll get some set with the manager
because the manager tells a player at second base
to move somewhere else and then the ball gets hit
exactly where the second baseman was.
And so he's furious and he's angry.
And the whole team had said, whatever you do, do not throw an
ephus pitch to Tony Perez, because Tony Perez will kill it.
And he's mad and he throws his ephus pitch and who he hits over the fence
or to to run home run.
Fuck. I mean, there're still ahead three to two,
but they end up losing the game
and they lose the World Series.
After Bill says manager Darrell Johnson's decision
to pitch Lewis Tiant, who is the best pitcher on the team,
instead of himself in Game six was quote, stupid,
but Daryl's-
Wait, so he's saying game six is where it got messed up,
basically.
Yeah.
Because it's over.
He's saying game six.
He's saying he should have started game six,
because he started game two,
so he should have started five, six in there, but whatever.
So he's mad at his own manager.
He says he's stupid, but Daryl has been falling out of trees and landing on his feet all season.
It's not something you usually hear a player say about their manager, but.
So he basically is like he's lucky.
Yeah, like the team, the team is saving his ass, basically.
Yes, right.
Bill gets invited to China by Guardian Magazine to go and just check out China.
They invite a bunch of different athletes who are not your normal American athletes.
He said China's society was built, participation and not competition quote
They do these obstacle course things and when someone fails they bring him along the idea is the for the group and for the slowest to be helped
Where's where they?
They're taking him to like a jungle gym. He's like man. China's crazy. No these people were doing like
Like community communal exercise like on the street and stuff. Okay, I people were doing like community. Communal exercise.
Yeah, like on the street and stuff like that.
Okay.
You can see in the parks.
Sure.
So, upon returning to the States, Bill grows a beard.
When asked about it, he said, quote, this isn't a foo manchu, it's a hochi min.
Jesus.
Not endearing himself to the Americans.
Yeah, right. Yeah.
Because I don't care what it is.
Dude, he's a Chinese spy, dude.
They would they probably sure they said that.
Of course.
So the next season on May 20th, the Plain the Yankees and there's a play at the plate
Fisk gets it's Carlton Fisk gets a guy out and then a fight breaks out like he's the guy who started his own liquor company called
Fiske
No, I think you're thinking someone else
Who you thinking I know I know this guy. I don't know I think I'm thinking of that guy who makes that fiskie
Fisk hits this guy hard, is trying to score.
Then the big fight breaks out.
OK. And Bill gets in it, of course, because that's that's Bill.
They they they target him.
The Yankees go after him.
He had said previously some shitty things about the Yankees,
like, quote, they were a bunch of hookers
swinging their purses when he was talking
about how tough they were.
Okay.
Or they could have targeted him
because he totally dominated him either way.
But one is punching Bill while he's like pinned
under the pile a little bit, just keep punching him.
And when he gets up, this other guy, Craig Nettles,
blindsides him and like just tackles him
and knocks him down on his shoulder.
He ends up having a torn ligament in his shoulder.
Well, just so people know though,
the Red Sox did get their revenge
when Pedro Martinez threw Don Zimmer by his head.
Oh, you have no idea.
Oh, what? You have no idea what's about to come
in the story. Arguably, some of my favorite things you say to me are things like that.
So he doesn't play for months. He doesn't play till June 15th. He never forgives Craig
Nettles for the rest of his life. Okay. Bill, after the game, compared Yankee manager Billy Martin to Nazi.
That guy is that guy is everywhere in this fucking podcast.
He compares Billy Martin to Nazi Herman Goering
and the Yankee players to his brown shirts.
Well, it's nice of him to not go all the way to Hitler, I guess.
He went to number two or three.
That's cute. That's fair.
You don't want to offend the guy.
Billy then had a dead fish put in Bill's locker with a note reading.
Stick this in your purse, you California faggot.
Wow, Jesus.
Billy Martin doesn't has never been a redeemable figure.
That word.
Yeah.
Super fucking common.
Crazy common at this point.
It is not nobody is not nice to hear but it's not nice to hear now but it is.
Yeah.
It is literally.
Oh yeah.
Every dude.
I mean I remember there are movies that I thought I loved and then, honestly,
every time that Dire Straits song comes on, Money for Nothing, I'm like, man, this is
a good riff and then you're like, dang, that's right, he really is comfortable with that.
Yeah, that got a lot of pro, people were, like, gay groups are very...
At the time?
Yeah, that definitely was protested, but it was also played
endlessly is like the number one song at the time on MTV and stuff
That year Bill finished five and seven with a five point six three era He wasn't used as much the next year. He only started 16 games. He went nine and five with a four era
He's fading. Yeah, he's fading red socks execs
The redx in general, far more conservative than most teams.
Like the last team to have a black player.
I think at this point they only had two black players.
Like they're very, I don't know if you've ever seen the Celtics in the 80s, but it's
a Boston's a certain kind of.
How would you put it?
Glanched.
I mean, yes.
One could argue, even though Larry Bird is one of the greatest NBA players of all time,
he's set back Boston Race Relations 50 years.
100%.
Yeah.
Every Boston dude is like, says, what are you telling you, dude?
You don't need them, dude. You don't have to have them dude.
So when a game was rained out,
some players decide and writers,
the traveling, they're traveling.
They decided to just have a day of drinking,
like they're gonna day drink.
Afterwards, the whatever, the front office is like the executives, they hear about it
and the Red Sox are told they cannot hang out with a specific writer from the Boston
Herald, George Kimball.
And if they did hang out with him, it would be considered treason and they would be fined.
Because he'd criticized the team. And and this was a good friend of Bill's.
By the way, that is it.
In a way, I kind of respect that in a way,
but it's not like they're trying to keep the line between journalism and sports.
They're just like, this guy wronged us.
Yeah.
But that is like that's like one of the things
that is so disgraceful about how our media works now.
Or it's like, these people are on the same room kick.
Like you kind of don't want that,
but the Red Sox are doing it for the wrong reason.
So they have a manager that just came in the last year.
A few players don't like him.
He's very conservative.
His name is Don Zimmer.
Oh my god, dude.
What?
What?
What are you talking about?
What year is this?
This is 76, I think.
Wow.
It might be 77.
So there's a group of nonconformists on the Red Sox,
which isn't normal for a baseball team.
And they form a clique.
Most pitchers don't like how Don Zimmer is using them,
keeping them in games too long,
maybe having him pitch on the rock.
This is when he's on the Red,
Don Zimmer's on the Red Sox.
He's a Red Sox manager. OK.
And they don't like how he's using them, right?
Do these he's he's burning them out, basically.
Mm hmm. So it becomes angry
that he's getting so many questions about Bill.
And like every every town they go to, people want to know about Bill Lee.
He's a spaceman, a spaceman.
What's a spaceman up to? He hates that after a game, a want to know about Bill Lee. He's... A space man. Yeah, a space man.
What's a space man up to?
He hates that after a game,
a circle would gather around Bill
to hear what Bill has to say.
Don, quote, everywhere we go,
some guy with a beard asks about Bill Lee.
That's like the oldest man's statement of all time.
It seriously is.
This is like a beard.
Like Don Zimmer was born old.
Don Zimmer came out of baby and then just stayed baby.
Yeah.
Just baby aged.
One day a reporter asked pitcher Ferguson Jenkins
what he thought of Zimmer.
And Jenkins said, quote,
I look at him like I look at the buffalo,
the stupidest animal that ever was. What a crazy, it's a crazy thing to say about your manager, but it's also like, why the
buffalo got it?
Why you got to shoot shots at the buffalo?
Well, he said the buffalo was dumb because it made the same mistakes over and over and
over again.
Is that true?
I don't know.
Okay, sure.
I feel like whatever.
Okay, sure. I feel like whatever. Okay, sure. This group of players, these nonconformists, then became known as the Buffalo Head Gang.
Okay. And Zimmer saw Bill as the leader. And essentially, they were there to fuck with
and make everything hard for Don Zimmer. I enjoy this. At the end of 1977, the Red Sox trade Ferguson to Texas because they're like, well, this
guy's not that good.
And then he wins 18 games.
He would go on to be in the Hall of Fame.
Good call.
Then right before the season starts, they trade two of the other Buffalo head guys.
So Bill goes and puts a candle on Don Zimmer's desk and lights it as a memorial.
A vigil?
Wow.
Wow.
Now, there's only two Buffalo head guys left, Billy and his buddy.
Sure.
During the season, the pitching staff has problems and Bill puts the blame just right on Zimmer.
For how he'd handled the pitchers, both the year before and this year. And their feud becomes public.
So they're having a war words mostly on Bill's side in the papers.
And Zimmer is absolutely furious that a player would talk shit publicly
about his own manager, like he's just losing his fucking mind.
Right. So Zimmer. OK.
So Zimmer, when Zimmer was a player, he was brought in to replace a guy named Pete Reiser,
sorry.
Okay.
Who, you know, who we had on the podcast.
Like, we did a couple months ago.
He was the guy who ran into walls all the time.
Yeah, right.
Yeah, but he was not a guest.
No.
So, Don Zimmer was supposed to replace him as a player, but he never was that good
Don, could you imagine replacing that like we need you to come back in for him?
No say shattered his cranium. So we're gonna need you to go in for a little bit
He'll be out probably about four to five days and hose the brain off the wall and then just grab his glove
So he's paralyzed. So he'll be back Tuesday. But you'll have to step it
until then. Well, Zimmer was was hit twice in the head when he was a player by balls
when he was batting. One time he was in a coma for two weeks and they drill. Holy shit.
They drilled holes in his head to relieve the pressure. Oh my God. Don quote, they filled
those holes up with what they called tantalum buttons that act
kind of like corks in a bottle.
Did he go to that drunk bone doctor?
That is, it sounds like a Cadbury product.
What did he call them?
What kind of buttons?
Tantalum.
Tantalum buttons.
Tantalum buttons. Tantalum buttons.
Better like.
It's like a Willy Wonka product.
They like corks in my head.
They're like.
It's a head corks.
So you describe that.
Like the surgeon was probably like, hey Don, do you want me to run you through what we
did one more time just in case anyone asks?
Because that's not a great presentation of what actually happened.
People would always say he had plates in his head, which made him mad for some reason because
he had corks.
Sure.
So Bill thinks Zimmer doesn't like pitchers because one almost killed him.
Okay.
He's also, he's very old school.
He doesn't understand players with beards.
He cannot, he can't get past the fact that a player would have a beard.
Yeah, it makes no sense. So he definitely doesn't get Bill's politics
He doesn't like Bill's bowling shirts or the sandals he wears or the jokes he makes
Or that he drove a green lime green BMW
Now I personally am opposed to that myself
Boston Globe quote Lee has never made him laugh.
Bill was a walking, talking example of everything that Zimmer doesn't like in the world
or understand in the world. He just doesn't understand. Right.
Bill talked about pyramid power, zero population growth, decriminalizing pot, enjoying soy burgers,
the badness of sugar, creative Zen Buddhism and karma. And reporters love it.
The reporters love it.
Can you just picture Zimmer's skull buttons
just starting to pop out? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Of course, that is awesome. Yeah. Um, the soy burgers back then, the 70s.
Wow.
Yeah.
The the Red Sox front office just sees this radical with no morals.
They just see him as like he's terrible.
Um, Bill's friend and fellow pitcher Tom House said quote, the absolute worst people run
the show.
Which I think still holds today the worst, the worst people in the show, which I think still holds today.
The worst, the worst people in baseball are the owners and the, and the execs.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Owners for sure.
Yeah.
Um, plus Bill always said it was on his mind, which is the last thing that they
want in baseball.
He said the California angels quote couldn't break a chandelier if they held
batting practice in a hotel lobby. Wow
Like he just he dog the California Angels
They must not assigned him or something like he might he had a personal
He must have wanted to play for them or something because he was always attacking them going Adam
He also said that the three-time champion A's were quote emotionally mediocre.
Wow, that is like some really like
that's some cutting criticism.
Oh, he's he's just so far ahead of he's they're not the usual baseball things.
He's saying things that are just way above everybody's.
Yeah, like you guys won three championships in a row.
Well, you're kind of like just
Emotionally and not that great. You're like you like boys. Yeah, we are yeah
No, we're like dumb boys. You're like we're champions. Yeah, but idiots. You're like a dumb
You're like, you know, not a handle it. You just we know how to handle it
It's like it's like watching little little kids run around
No, we're not.
Oh, see, here we go. Here we go.
No, you're here.
We're gonna cry.
You're gonna cry?
No, we're grown ass men, you piece of shit.
On behalf of the angels, we just broke a bunch of chandeliers, dickhead.
OK, this kind of makes it kind of makes my point.
So it kind of makes your point invalid.
You don't know what's happening right now, do you?
I don't.
We're in a lot of trouble with the hotel and my heart hurts.
So things go from bad to worse when Bill gives Don Zimmer a new nickname.
Oh, come on. Now.
Headbuttons.
Well, I'll try to.
Skull shirt.
So he. So Bill Zimmer's head is round.
Don Zimmer's head.
Sorry. Don Zimmer's very round.
Don Zimmer's head is round.
Yes. We we how would I would describe him as a chubby fester.
Well, he was originally nicknamed Popeye when he was a player because he looked like
an insult to Popeye.
It looks like if someone smushed wimpy and Popeye together.
So his new nickname, because Zimmer's put on weight, his face is big.
So Bill nicknames him the gerbil.
That's true. That's like Trump level.
Diggie. The gerbil is the gerbil is great.
And when asked about it, he's like, well, gerbils aren't that smart and they keep food
in their face.
Oh my God. That is brutal.
That is brutal. Oh, so so Zimmer's pissed.
You mean the gerbil?
That's amazing.
And so and then now the Red Sox trade the last Buffalo head
and Bill's best friend.
His name is Bernie Carbo.
He's traded for what is just essentially a garbage player.
Like it's literally to get it Bill.
It's like-
We traded him for some used golf clubs.
Basically.
So Bill reads it in the paper in the morning
and he's furious, he tears the paper in half,
he rips his phone off the wall
and then he said he went into his room
and cried for 45 minutes.
Then he gathers himself and he runs to Fenway.
I think it's Miles that he runs and he storms into the executive offices and he just starts
screaming at them.
Wow.
The Red Sox general manager.
You didn't want to take a taxi or something?
I don't know.
Maybe get it out of his system a little bit before he gets there. It's just... I can't...
I... so...
You guys screwed with the wrongs?
Oh, is that Gator?
Can I get a nib of that?
Can I see a mighty...
The Red Sox General Manager, quote, he said he was going to punch my head off.
Wow, he's like that kid from the video where he gets mad at Santa.
But I'm I'm a I'm a punch his beard off.
I'm for this. All workers should be able to do this.
Bill was fine to days pay about $500 right there.
He's like, you're fine, five hundred.
And Bill then says, can you make it 1500?
Quote, I'd like to have the whole weekend off.
Wow, that's dope.
The next day, Bill drives to the Massachusetts
Hospital School for the handicapped to make it
appearance, which he did often.
He was a big visitor to kids hospitals,
well known around town for that.
And then after he leaves and he drives to Fenway
and when he gets to Fenway, he's angry and he storms in and clears out his locker. He rips his name plate off and throws
it on the floor and says, I am retiring. It storms out. A self cut. Then Clifford Claff still
hate him obviously. And Keen loudly told Red Sox, the Red Sox GM at a press conference quote, if this team
has any class, you'll tell him to shove it.
But Bill Cuddle's in the next day.
Oh, he castans it.
And he's wearing a t-shirt.
And the t-shirt reads,
Durable.
Friendship first, competition second.
Wow, that is some crazy shit, right?
That's some Sesame Street shit right there.
Well, that's China.
That is antithetical to sports in the United States
without a question.
Oh no, Don Zimmer can not believe what he's fucking seeing.
There's no such thing.
Oh yeah.
There's no such thing.
Oh, he must have been like running in his little wheel
spinning wood chips all over the place.
So yeah, and that's what he was saying about China, right?
That he clearly took that from China.
So Bill said baseball wasn't fun anymore
and he'd be happier on his grandfather's walnut farm.
He said he felt like the character in the movie Network
who had been shot on the air.
Wow.
And he asked for compassion and said it was time
for everyone to quote start thinking about the earth.
Oh, this guy's great.
Bill said management was trying to make him a villain because he was the team's union rep.
He said Zimmer had established bad karma and now that was coming to fruition.
And he's like, Zimmer pitches me too much.
Since the team had a huge lead in the standings.
This is what he thinks.
He thinks, so it's the middle of the season
and they are way ahead of all the other teams.
They're 14 games up.
And he's like, so they're so far in the head in the standings, they think they can punish me and fuck with me like this. And it still won't
matter. They'll still win the league at the end of the year. Bill also said Zimmer had said Zimmer
quote, won't live long on this planet because he is a type A personality. Wow. Good God. guy does live long Yes, he does
But still yeah, it's amazing
Amazing thing to say I mean the reporters like that'll do it
Let's get any other stuff
So from July 15th through August 19th Bill lost seven games in a row
But in five of the seven games he gives up no more than three earned runs
Which is very good, so he's losing the game, but he gives up no more than three earned runs, which is very
good.
So he's losing the game, but he's doing his job.
The team's losing.
On July 30, he loses two to one, and he throws a complete game in that game.
So Zimmer then uses the three losses to no longer start Bill.
He's done.
He takes Bill out of the starting picture rotation and puts him in the bullpen.
Crazy move to do as a manager by the way.
Yes.
Now your personal issues.
You're messing with the bottom line.
Yes.
That's right.
And a couple of times he, so the way baseball works is there's a pitcher not pitching well,
you're in the dugout.
The bullpen is out in the outfield usually and that's where pitchers warm up because they need they need space to warm up
So they're not with the other players in the dugout and then just sitting there pitching to a catcher base
It's probably not a phone anymore
But back then you would literally pick up a phone it would ring in the bullpen and you would go hey get bill warming up
Yeah, a couple times Don Zimmer now calls down to the bullpen and says, get Bill warming
up and they'd be like, oh, Bill's not here.
Wow.
Wow.
What?
Can we take a message?
Hey, Don, can he call you back?
He just went to A&W for a little bit.
That is incredible.
And by September, the Red Sox are falling apart. Their 14 game lead in July when they when they they traded the guy is now down to four games.
And the players are blaming Zimmer.
Yeah, of course, the German.
Then they have the Yankees coming in.
There are four games ahead of the Yankees.
They're going to play the games of four games at Fenway.
They lose all four games ahead of the Yankees. They're going to play the games for four games at Fenway. They lose all four games, a combined score of 42 to nine.
Oh my God.
And it becomes known as the Boston Massacre.
It's just, again, it's just, yeah,
there are people who are like, please don't.
My father.
But Bill's in the doghouse, right? who are like, please don't. Not my father.
But Bill's in the doghouse, right? But Zimmer has to pitch him in relief in two of those games.
One, he throws seven innings, gives up one run.
So great fucking job.
The Yankees beat them 13 to two.
And then a couple of days later,
he pitches two innings, score this relief.
And the Yankees won that game seven to four.
So it's like you can tell by just from the sound of that game,
if they lost 13 to two and Bill pitched seven score the innings,
that means they put in a pitcher that's not as good as Bill to start the game.
He gave him a bunch of runs.
He gets a deficit.
And then they brought in Bill.
So that's what that means.
Right.
The fans after the massacre are furious. They blame Zimmer. The players blame Zimmer.
The Boston Globe, quote, it had gotten to the point where Zimmer privately detested Lee more
than any player he'd ever had. And there was no way he'd ever have him pitch again.
I mean, to be fair, when you're called the gerbil,
that is a real hole in your soul that no button can fill.
I mean, it is the meatball run of sporting nicknames.
100%, it is the meatball run of sporting nicknames.
And it's like they were trying to fuck with him
because they they just knew he was going to fuck everything up.
Like they knew he was going to fuck everything up.
Yes. It's a really great nickname, though.
It's a really unbelievably good nickname.
So the feud between Zimmer and Bill is now playing out in the papers.
I mean, you've got the spaceman versus the gerbil. Yeah. Always spaceman.
It's just not even fair. I tell you, I've always loved Don Zimmer until I
research this article. So they go to Detroit. I just saw this picture in the paper. Bill goes into
the he goes into the opposing into his locker room in the in the stadium in Detroit, and
they get to put up their names in there in in the clubhouse they're given to use. And
so they put like, you know, tape Bill up and write his name. Bill then took the standings from the All-Star
Break from when Boston were way ahead and taped them above his locker so Boston's
up 11 and a half games to now when they're tied. One day, Bill came in in a
blackoutfit that he called his Mexican funeral wear. Quote,
Wow. Nobody looks at me. They walk by like I've been bitten by a rat from Calcutta
and the disease will spread.
Wow.
Today this would, it's Rodman-esque.
Yes, it's Rodman-esque, but it's a little bit worse.
It's a little bit worse than Rodman-esque
because Rodman did everything he could.
He was kind of doing what the coach wanted,
which was to be a crazy ass distraction,
a fucking shithead on the court.
Like he was really a team guy.
You would, I would argue that the part of that
was how Jackson, Phil Jackson handled Rodman.
But I also think what Bill is doing differently
is his criticism is actually so on point that it actually,
as more, Rodman was just kind of a loose cannon what Bill is doing is giving commentary on the team
Yeah, with with wild actions right instead of just wearing a dress and and yeah
We're going to Vegas for three days or whatever. He's like actually like he's he's sensationalizing his criticism
So It's pretty great.
I mean, I kind of absolutely fucking love it.
So it's all like I said, it's all paying out.
It's all playing out in the paper.
He doesn't interview when he's in Detroit.
He tells reporter Joe LePointe he was he's a canary in a coal mine, but no one had listened
to him because he's saying like I said this last year, Don Zimmer is a fucking disaster.
Yeah.
Quote, I'm through with this organization, but I'm not through with baseball.
In the dugout still, Bill would go down and pencil his name into the starting lineup.
So. So just just a crazy, crazy, dude.
Literally everything he can do to drive Don Zimmer crazy. you're not allowed to go near the light up card
Yeah
The points that he kept his sense of humor the whole time quote the conversation lucid intelligent ran the gamut of Sadat and
Begin begin. How do you say his name Egypt and the peace talks between Egypt and Israel, whatever.
Bacon?
No, it's not bacon.
Jesus Christ, kid.
I mean, we're just trying to find it together.
So let's just, can we create a safe space
where we can try to help each other figure this out?
We can't.
Jesus, dude.
They talk about farming, ultimate frisbee,
jogging, yoga, Billy Martin and Warren Zavon,
the werewolf of London. I don't know how long, and Warren Zavon, the werewolf of London.
I don't know how long of a conversation
you can have about the werewolf of London,
to be quite honest.
If we're talking about the song.
No, the movie, I think.
Oh, the movie, which is crazy.
The movie I could talk about for a long time.
I could talk about the movie.
It could be the song, though, whatever.
So.
Well, I think that's a Warren Zavon song.
It is, where old's London is.
He loved, he was a huge Warren Z Blanc guy, Bill.
He's awesome.
So for the rest of the season,
if they'd won just one more game,
they would have won the pennant.
But Zimmer never pitched Bill
and arguably one of his best seasoned veteran pitchers.
And so they end up tied at the end of the season
and then they lose a one-game playoff and that's it.
It's over. To the surprise of no one bill is traded in December to the Montreal Expos for not even an
average infielder. So it's essentially a cut. I mean, they're just they want to be done. They'll
take what they need to be done with them. Everybody knows like, well, yeah, you want to get rid of
them. So I'm not going to give you a good player for him. Yeah, right, right.
But Bill has always offended that trade.
That's what he was traded for.
Bill then says of the 78 Red Sox, quote, who wants to be with a team that will go down
in history alongside the 64 Phillies and the 67 Arabs?
The 67 Arabs?
They're asking by Israel.
Oh my God.
Jesus Christ.
Oh, shit.
Bill was, he's happy to be back in the National League because they do not have a DH, which is where the picture doesn't hit.
Another guy does, which the AL put in in 73.
Bill called it, quote, the end of civilization as we know
it.
And I agree.
And I could actually probably draw you some graphs that would prove that.
I'm good.
I don't want your home drawn graphs.
During spring training, Bill was asked if there was a marijuana problem on the Boston
Red Sox.
And Bill said, quote, this is what Bill later, he said this quote,
I said, hell no, how could they I've been using that stuff since 1968. And I've never
had a problem with it. There we go. So the next day on every paper, Billy uses marijuana
is the headline across the country everywhere. So the league sends a guy down to talk to
Bill to find out exactly what was going on.
Did he really say that?
And Bill says, look, the quote was, I never said I smoked pot.
I said, I used it.
And the guy was like, well, how do you use it without smoking it?
And Bill says, each morning, I run five miles to the ballpark.
After waking up I prepare myself for this arduous task by taking a huge batch of organic
buckwheat pancakes and I sprinkle marijuana on the pancakes while they're cooking.
And the THC is absorbed by the pancakes and it makes me impervious to all the bus fumes
and other forms of air pollution I may encounter while running. So he's just
fucking bullshitting the guy. He may have eaten pot but he's bullshitting the guy
and the guy believes it. He's like, oh the the the league president might, yeah
that actually sounds, yeah. The idea that you're going to remove any aggravation
with marijuana used by being like,
don't worry, I'm not smoking it, I'm eating it.
It was far more psychoactive when you eat it.
Yeah, he's completely fucking with the guy.
He's like, little, little, little.
I know, yeah, but still, like, for the guy to be like,
Yeah, he knows.
Oh, okay, we were worried you were high.
Yeah.
But you're just digesting it orally.
Okay.
Well, they're looking for a loophole, the guy thinks well, we've yeah, right
Okay, I'm sorry about that
But the president of baseball the president of the American League is like I think I think Bill said one points at
He's during the Nixon administration. So whatever he he finds he finds Bill 250 dollars. He says it's not of the interest of baseball
The next home game although what what could be better for baseball than being like you should smoke pot and watch this?
Yeah, I honestly could not imagine getting through a whole baseball game without we.
Personally, this is long.
The next home game, Bill was pitching and saw little things landing around him.
Little things are landing.
What's going on around the mound.
A little spheres.
Space bed.
And then one hits him.
And he picks it up and it's a piece of tin foil.
Oh, my God.
And he puts it.
He's getting he puts it in his pocket.
That's amazing.
And then when he's in the dugout, This is what I always picture dollop touring.
This is what I tried to get going for years as a weed smoker.
And then he goes in the dugout and he opens it up and.
The fans are throwing pot and hash at him.
Oh, God.
In tin foil.
And so when he goes out for the next
and he picks up all the little little spheres, puts them in his pocket.
So when he goes out for the next inning, he picks up all the little,
the little spheres, puts them in his pocket.
From that point on, whenever he goes out on the streets in Montreal,
everyone is just like, you want to get high bill? You want to get high bill?
You want to get high bill?
The Zimmer and the Red Sox had called Bill Washed Up before they traded him,
but he ended the year with 16 wins and a 3.04 ERA.
And he's back. The wire services named him nationally left-handed pitcher of the year with 16 wins and a 3.04 eRA and he's back the wire services named him
National League left-handed pitcher of the year
He's all teammate called them Fisk
Told is that the guy who came out with that cat food called the fiskers. I think you're thinking of someone else
Who are you thinking of I?
Think I'm thinking of my cat food buddy. Who's your cat food buddy?
He's Jonathan Fiskers. He came thinking of my cat food buddy. Who's your cat food buddy? He's Jonathan Fiskers.
He came out with that cat food.
Oh, interesting.
No, it's not him.
I know I know this guy.
His old teammate, Carlton Fisk, told Sports Illustrated, quote, management was still making
it hell for Bill last season.
People around here told him he wasn't worth anything, that he
wasn't the type of guy to have around. The club tried to infect the area with nasty talk
about what a miserable mess Bill Lee was. They tried to turn the flock on one of its
own, but the spacemen tricked him. He tricked everybody. So, you know, he's saying what
Bill was saying was that they're trying to villainize me. They're trying, which is like, but he's winning.
You're ahead 14 games.
What in the fuck are you doing?
You have a team.
It's fine.
Well, it's the hubris.
Yes.
You know, it's thinking that, hey, it's it's my strategy versus your talent, right?
Your talent.
It can be replaced.
Yes.
Um, then you're nothing without me.
I'm fine without you. Yeah. The me. I'm fine without you.
Yeah.
The no, I'm talking to you.
Oh, no, I don't think that's true.
That's crazy.
I can't be.
Oh, sorry.
The next three years, the next three years are subpar.
He's he's he's older now, right?
He's been playing a while.
He misses some games in 1980.
Here's his hip when he fell out of a building onto an iron fence.
He was. Was there a pool nearby? I don't know.
There I guarantee you there was something nearby like there was water nearby.
Yeah.
You know, just fall out of a fucking window onto a fence.
In 1981, there's a big player strike, so we didn't play that much that year.
And then his major league baseball careers over in May, 1982,
when he gets into another
argument with Expo's management after his friend Rodney Scott was released by the team.
On May 8, Bill walked out on the team and the Expo's released him the next day.
That's right, you're done, huh?
He never got another chance and Bill would always say he was blackballed from Major League
Baseball.
Right.
He's also older, but also like veteran guys are you want to have veteran guys around,
especially guys who've been in the World Series.
So I don't know.
I would venture is a little bit of both, you know.
He did a lot of stuff after his major league career.
He wrote a couple of books.
He coached, he played in different leagues.
He played in senior leagues in Florida.
He held nothing back in the books he wrote.
He was the subject of a 2006 documentary
called Spaceman, a baseball odyssey.
Third most wins by Red Sox's left-handed pitcher in history,
94.
He never really retired. In August of 2012 at 65.
He signed a one day contract with the center of
fell Pacific's and through a complete gain.
What? I thought that was like a retirement base.
I seriously think sometimes they'll sign dudes to one day
contracts so that they can have finished with the team
But that he they's the oldest picture to throw a complete game
That's amazing that they were like so this is not ceremonial. Can you play?
And he's like not throw a complete game boy
They might have been like go out there and throw an inning and he just kept pitching well. They're like keep him in
He probably just wrote his name in the lineup and they were like, shit, all right.
Yeah.
He sometimes still pitches for the Savannah bananas who are like a fun crazy.
I don't think anybody hates, but I'm sure there's somebody.
He never lost his bitterness about Craig Nell's cheap shot during the fight. And around 2014, he went to a baseball function and there was Craig Nettles.
Oh, boy.
He said Nettles didn't bother to get out of his chair when they were introduced.
Bill quote, he hasn't aged well at all.
He looked like a duvet cover.
Oh, Ricky.
How's that even mean? I don't know. It's so good.
It's just very...
It's so good.
Well, yeah, you know, kind of lumpy and wrinkled.
RINCOLD SCREAMS
LAUGHS
In 2022,
Bill was warming up
to go into a bananas game
in Georgia and he collapsed.
Oh no.
He was resuscitated with a defibrillator and he immediately started talking about his
changeup when he came to.
Bill, you died for me.
Last August, he was at a triple A game in Worcester to throw out the first pitch and
sign some autographs and he collapsed. It was called a minor health scare. He's still with us. He's still the
king. Wow. Great. Still one of our baseball kings. He's out there doing it.
He's great. He's going still good for a quote. Yeah. I wish they still made
baseball players like this, but they don't. They're all very homogenized and made to, there's some that are fun-ish,
but there's no like, I don't know, they don't deviate from the norm this much.
As well as I would say that now the, if you do get sort of like we
were talking with Robin a little bit, you know, when you do get that now,
it's like pop stars.
It's like, it's like pop stars. It's like it's less because
of a commentary. It's more for personal success or like notoriety. Yes. You know, people do that
now for views or for whatever, you know. I want to see if I can play this. Let me see if I can play this quote right here.
Well we should also real quick, like what happened with Don Zimmerman, Don Zimmer and
Pedro Martinez was there was a, the Red Sox and the Yankees have a hell of a rivalry obviously.
And Pedro Martinez was a Red Sox pitcher who one time when I was Valley Park
and cars in Boston got out of his car
when he was coming to a restaurant I was working at
with what I could only describe as like three or four
man bags, like little man kind of European man bag things.
And he was on a cell phone and in the bags
he had other cell phones and he was looking for money to tip us and he tipped us $50 on the way in.
And we were all like that was a super bizarre person who just went by us but don Zimmer in a brawl.
Storm who knows what the fuck he was thinking I mean he probably thought he was in a hamster wheel and he just hauls ass towards Pedro Martinez.
He's like 80 years old and he hauls ass towards he's doing what could only be described as a bull run.
And Pedro Martinez takes his big melon that apparently had some buttons in it.
And he like a bullfighter steps out of the way and
takes Don Zimmer's head and throws him like he's a bullfighter in the direction
with his momentum and the way he was going and Don Zimmer fell really hard and
and then after the game when he was talking about it he was kind of
apologizing through tears over what he did. And it was it was really for guys like
me who are not huge baseball fans where I went, what's going on with this man? Is this
man okay inside and out? Or did he have someone put buttons in his skull?
He's one of those guys who's so memorable that he was a coach, like a first base coach
on the Giants for a year. And I in my head when I was doing the story, I was like, he must have been on the Giants
for a while.
He seemed like he'd been on the Giants for like five years or six years, but it was
just one year.
But he's just so memorable.
You just think of him.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
Okay.
Vance a patient proclamation of baseball.
When the reserve clause was overturned, this allowed the owners from signing
perpetual one-year contracts to ball players, thereby keeping them in the organization for eternity.
So basically it allowed us to go from plantation to plantation based on the highest bit of the
plantation owner. And the owners got very upset about that because it inflated salaries and then ticket prices went up
and television revenue went up.
And they found out they were making more money
and they found out, wow, we had a $1.5 million franchise.
Now we have $150 million franchise.
So they made money, the players made money.
The only people that got hurt were the American public,
the fans, the integrity of baseball and eventually the planet earth
I love that he's around like crickets yeah he's outside it's remarkable he's like
in like a field no like that why did we have to meet you here thanks for coming
to my barn he's outside on his farm, I think. Okay. So, sources. Scott Russell,
the Spaceman Chronicles, the life of the earthling named Bill Lee, Jim Prime and Bill Lee, baseball
eccentrics, a definitive look at the most entertaining outrageous and unforgettable characters
in the game. Sports Illustrated, Dead Spin, Eagle Times, Vintage Detroit, Boston Baseball History,
ESPN.com, Mashable, Boston Globe, Chicago Tribune,
Detroit Free Press, The New York Times,
and The Society for American Baseball Research.
That article was by Jim Prime.
Yeah, really, I really like, I really like Bill Lee.
Yeah, I do too.
Yeah, he's great.
That's awesome.
Well, there you go, another baseball one.
Yeah.
All right, everyone.
Peace out?
Is that what we say?
Are we peace out, guys?
Nope, take care Dave.
Slammin'
Slammin' to the out.
Slammin' by, slammin' by.
Snappin' em, snappin' em go.
Snap and go everybody.