The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds - 628 - Katherine Tingley and Theosophy - live
Episode Date: April 9, 2024Comedians Gareth Reynolds and Dave Anthony examine Katherine Tingley and theosophy. With guest Pam Reynolds Tour Dates Redbubble Merch Sources Squarespace...
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Yeah, you get it.
Oh Dave.
All right.
No.
Garfy?
Sure.
Yeah, that's closer.
No.
Confusing.
No.
Bizarre.
No.
Thank you, miss.
You're listening to the dollop! This is an American history podcast where each week I, Dave Anthony, read a story from
American history to be about.
And David, last show, guest.
We got a guest.
It's Jesus Christ, it's J-Town.
We got, he's going to come out on a jet ski.
No, no, no.
Any who's will be.
Our guest tonight is my mother, the wonderful Pam Reynolds, is here tonight.
There you are.
Hello.
There you go. Hello. There you go.
Hello.
Hello.
Remember, what are we going to do?
Talk into the mic.
I'm going to talk into the mic.
Am I doing well?
Is that good?
That's really good.
Are you pleased?
Yeah, very good job.
Fabulous.
It's my girl.
Yeah, all right, let's slow it down already.
That's...
Yeah, good.
Don't love it already.
Yes.
Mother who walked into the green room and went, are there any sweets?
And it was just me.
I was the only sweet.
Ah, come on, guy.
Only me.
Come on, guy.
Knock it off.
Like a chocolate kiss, right?
What?
Stop.
No, no.
She knows.
She knows.
Dave's drunk. No, Mom, no, don't agree.
Don't nod.
July 6th, 1847!
Yeah!
Catherine Augusta Westcott was born in Newberry, Massachusetts.
Wow, nice. She was the only daughter
of three kids. Her parents were Susan and James. James walked away from his lumber
business to work as a hotel keeper in Newberry Port. Sure, it's not that funny
sir. It's a very factual moment that he was like, Newberry Port. Well, that was worth the price of admission right there.
Catherine went to public schools,
and the family moved to Alexandria, Virginia
during the Civil War.
Smart.
Smart time to make that move, for sure.
Yeah, close to it.
You got to get close to it.
Get right there.
Get in there.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, James was a Union Army captain. and at 14, Catherine decided to be a nurse and
help care for the wounded and dying.
So hearing the cannons and guns and seeing a lot of men just get killed and ruined, she
came away with a hatred of war.
Interesting.
Coward, right?
That's not America.
That's not America!
After she moved to Montreal to go to a convent school. Interesting. Coward, right? That's not America. That's not America! Yup.
After she moved to Montreal to go to a convent school.
Sure.
Great.
Sir, shut the fuck up.
I'll jump in early.
So she meets a fella up there, Richard Cook, and she leaves the convent school.
So she's at convent school, and then she meets a guy and she's like, actually...
I like dick.
So I think sex is probably going to be in my plan.
I like it in all the places.
But what are you doing?
But God, you were so close to God now and it's time you just, you took the vow of celibacy.
Well now I'm really into...
Does he have a brother?
But he can handle two.
Oh, Jesus.
Yeah.
Wait, so we both?
Yeah, we can...
Yeah, I don't know.
That's a little...
Well, we can all three of us.
I know, but I really...
That's like a huge jump for me.
Not for me.
I can...
I can handle all of this.
Good show, eh? Not for me. I can Can handle all this
Good show, eh?
Quite get it actually. Yeah good me either. Yeah, what is he talking about?
No, no, not you down
So they got married in 1867 and the marriage lasted about two months Wow back then that's
Extremely short. Yeah.
What do you do?
What do you mean?
You stop being married.
You do?
Yeah.
You just stop.
Okay.
I don't know.
You and dad.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It doesn't really go into how they got divorced or whatever.
They got divorced.
They're done. Interesting.
So after this, her history is murky for a little while.
And it seems like she may have been traveling
with a theater company for a bit.
So theater dork.
We know that she was living in New York City in 1880,
because that's when she married George Parent, who
was an investigator for the New York City
Elevated Railroad.
She did a lot of charity work,
and she created the Society of Mercy
to promote prison visitation,
and then she created the Women's
Emergency Relief Association.
Okay.
So her marriage to George Parent ended in 1888,
and then she married Filo Buchanan Tingley.
Sorry, I'm still obsessed with the idea that she's had three marriages in the 1800s.
That's hard to do.
And her new husband's last name is Tingling?
Philo Buchanan Tingley.
Philo Buchanan Tingley.
Well, you can call it Tingley.
Tingley. Tingley. Tingley. Like tingling. Tingling? Well, you can call it tingly. Tingling? Tingling, yeah.
Tingling.
Tingling.
Tingling.
Like tingling.
Well, you just said the word.
Exactly.
That's not very helpful if you go like tingly.
It's so much like tingly.
It is exactly.
Yeah.
You know, like tingly.
You mean the word he just said?
For sure.
Yeah, no, I heard that part, I think.
It's exactly like that.
As in tingly.
Maybe that's why she had three marriages, because she was tingly.
That tingly, yeah. It could have been. It could have been. At that 1800s, tingly. Maybe that's why she had three marriages, because she was tingly. It could have been.
It could have been.
At that 1800s, tingly.
She was a bit horny, wasn't she, mum?
Well, she certainly was, yes.
Got a bit of a horn back there, isn't she, mum?
So he worked for a steamship company,
and New York has no places to care for the poor,
if you can imagine.
What?
And we saw that and we were like, what if that was everywhere?
So in the East Side slum, which was the worst in the city, she founded the Do Good Mission.
Nice.
To raise some money, she started giving psychometric readings.
Psychometrics were very popular,
as were mediums and seances.
Uh-oh. Spiritual moments.
So psychometrics...
Don't love it.
There's a seed here, David.
Psychometrics could get information about a subject
by touching something owned or just being near someone.
What? So, okay.
So, well, we don't hear about it anymore,
which means that it was probably really helpful.
Yes.
So, you could take an object.
That's probably why she's got the horn.
Yeah, that might be where she's hiding like some shells or something.
Yeah, that's the bit that you touch.
Yeah, and it gets bigger.
Now, you would take, so you take something, so I would take, like for you, I would take
your precious rock.
You have a rock you love, and I would take that and I would take like for you I would take your precious rock You have a rock you love and I would take that and I would hold that and I'll be like
Oh, you're like a little acerbic and you're kind of angry and you're gonna get suspended from Twitter for 12 hours today
Like you can't tell someone I have a heart attack anymore
Fuck happen to that place?
But that's the idea, right?
I take something that's precious to you and I'm like, oh, you like to surf.
Yeah, you take my rock and you go, you like to surf.
You like to surf.
I don't know why you're squeezing the rock.
Oh, wow.
Nice.
Oh, you're a surf boy, huh? Wow. Nice. Ooh.
You're a surf boy, huh?
Ooh.
Like it.
Are you proud?
No.
Why did you say no so fast?
Did you guys rehearse that?
You said no like...
You didn't think about it. I had a while to listen.
Oh, good lord.
In 1875, Madame Blavatsky...
Uh-oh, here we go. That's right, it's me.
I'm out of bullshit and I want no more.
Wow.
Uh, William Kwan Judge. So they found the
Theosophical Society. Theosophical Society was a quote research and
publishing institute dedicated to the archaic wisdom religion. The archaic? A religion that came before all other religions.
Ah, before we made them good.
But not a religion.
It was a mix of the occult, Hinduism, and Buddhism.
Blavatsky said she had received it telepathically
from a secret Egyptian brotherhood.
Okay.
Which is how it happens.
So, one day you're just sitting around.
It's the oldest religion.
But not really a religion.
But kind of the occult.
Yes.
And it came to her through
she heard it in her head from Egypt.
Egyptian telepathy.
Yeah.
Any flags feeling with me?
No flags.
No flags.
This is how it happens.
So William Q. Judge was one of our-
William Q. Judge?
Q. Judge.
Oh, I thought it was William Q. Judge.
William Q. Judge was one of our most passionate believers.
Fingers can be intertwined.
He came from Ireland at 13, tried to be a lawyer, failed and became depressed.
Well, my wife, Troy, came all the way here to be a lawyer.
Unfortunately, that's not worked out for me.
Now I'm a bit down in the dumps.
Sorry, we need a minute.
I'll be alright.
Oh, that passed.
So, Madame Blavatsky diagnosed him and gave him a ring, which she called a talisman, and
it changed his life.
Oh, I feel so much better now that I got the ring.
Fuckin' hell.
That was close back there.
And he turned his life around.
Now he was president of the...
America, I've become the first immigrant president.
USA, USA, USA.
He's not of the...
He's of the Theosophical Society, not the country.
Was he Irish as well?
Yeah, I think he might have been.
So he's like the driving force of building it up.
He's the guy who really makes it expand.
So he read about Catherine's social work
and went down and watched her from across the street.
Cool, and not a creepy move.
Look at her, the way that she's working socially, the way that she's grabbing people's things
and rubbing them.
I love the way that she's able to do stuff like that.
Oh, soon I'm going to go over there and say something.
Well yeah, but first I've got to, first there's something I need to take care of over here
on my own.
Yeah, that's right.
When you're in your monologue, you can keep looking ahead.
Are you doing the voice in my head?
That's right, I am, because nobody wants to hear.
That's right.
Oh, I've got an object for her to figure out the meaning behind.
I don't know where that's going.
That's not right, what I just did.
That's not who we are.
We don't usually do this, but we're just thrown off by having you here.
I'm sure, yes.
I throw up over a lot of people.
I mean, throw off a lot of people.
Yeah.
That's fair.
It's making us rude.
Yes.
Rebald.
So he watches from across the street,
and he saw her, quote, hunger for something
that could go much deeper.
Lunch.
Than social or religious solutions?
From across the street. Yeah, you can see it. I was watching you from across the
street and I could tell you have a hunger that's deeper than what you're
doing now. You're striving for something bigger aren't you? Yeah. Yeah, I got all
that from across the street. Yeah, what? Yeah, I watched you for about a day and a
half. That was you. Yeah, the police asked me to flee a couple times but they didn't come. Yeah, the police asked me to flee a couple times.
Oh, they did?
Yeah, they did.
Yeah, one of them hit me with a building.
It was really uncomfortable.
Yeah, I know, it was tough, tough to sit through.
But I'm quite impressed with what it is you do.
And I think you got a big, bright future in doing stuff.
Like what kind of stuff?
Other stuff.
Like what?
I can't remember exactly what it was,
but it was like, you know, like theological things and that nature. Theosophical? Theosophical. You know the name
more than me? Well potentially but I have had a bit of a wet lunch. I've had a bit of a bit
drinking a bit. I've been drinking a lot. Honestly. I had a bush mills. I had a mill bush. Not a bush. Whoa! That took a turn.
Oh, Christ almighty.
Okay, no noises.
Interesting.
Yeah, don't know if there's, yeah, it's a bit of a kitty cat noise, a bit of a cat noise.
Bit of an aquatic cat.
Two can play at that game. A bit of an aquatic hat.
Two can play at that game.
Time for sounds.
No, no, no, no, no. No.
No.
So easy.
So, judge introduces himself and tells her Theosophy would, quote, remove the causes
of misery and not merely relieve the effect.
And not merely relieve the effect?
Walk me through that one more time.
So it's not just going to wash it away, it's going to get deep in it.
The roots will be taken out.
Yeah, roots.
Right, OK.
So this hit her like lightning.
She had found her place in the world.
Sure.
Not soon after, Madame Blavatsky died.
So Annie Besant was Blavatsky's appointed successor.
Nice.
But then, Judge received a letter
from an ancient Tibetan Mahatma
that named him as Blavatsky's spiritual successor.
How did he send it?
What did you, how do you send it back then?
It just came through the mail.
Through the mail?
So the Tibetan guy was like,
how many stamps to get it from whatever year this is to 1880?
No, he's a guy in Tibet.
Oh, he's in Tibet now.
Oh, no, we couldn't meet.
He's ancient.
I think he's ancient.
Yeah, yeah.
So I think he's old.
So he's just sending like letters.
Well, sometimes letters will come through time.
Yeah, like in Back to the Future.
Yeah, like in Back to the Future. Yeah, like in Back to the Future. So, two founders, Henry Steele Alcott and Annie Besant, were furious about the letter.
So they think that Judge has forged the letter from the ancient Mahatma.
Oh, come on! What? From the ancient Tibetan man?
Yeah.
And they're upset because they liked the...
Well, Annie's the chosen...
Right.
...is the heir apparent, but now this other guy is usurping the whole with his letter.
But if you get a letter from an ancient...
But we just get the letter, so we haven't met him yet.
So he...
Met who?
The Tibetan man.
We're not going to meet him.
He sent a letter.
Okay. So he's just... So he's usurping power via...
No, no. He picked judge in the letter. Oh, okay. Judge. Okay. Got letter. Okay, so he's just... So he's usurping power via... No, no, he picked Judge in the letter.
Oh, okay, Judge. Okay, gotcha. Okay.
So, this begins with a New York Herald called the Battle of Fair Theosophists.
Judge splits off with 4,000 followers and he creates the Theosophical Society of America
and he pushes to make Theosophy more like practical
and western, like more so Americans will be into it.
Sure.
And Catherine, who is one of his most ardent followers, is super on board and helping him
out. And then Judge dies in 1895,
and in his secret diary, he names Catherine as his successor.
She says she gets dead messages from Judge,
messages from dead Judge,
telling her that she's his pick to take over.
Just through the mine.
Yeah, like you-
The Judge is like, look, you gotta do this.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm hearing The judge is like, look, you got to do this. Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm hearing...
Put a towel on your head.
A dead long dress.
They say it's hair.
You're in charge!
Come on, you got this.
Put on that nightgown.
So she has...
It looks like you're singing all the time.
She has double proof, right?
She has this secret diary that he wrote that only she found and then...
She found the diary.
Well, I assume so. Sure. And also she's also getting messages in her head
yeah so it's all coming from her but she's got two sources which they say is
a jerk in journalism two sources yes you're good to go so she's got two
sources the diary that she found uh-huh that's from judge yeah and the messages
from beyond the grave from judge that are going into her brain and out of her
And judge got the job because he got a secret letter from a Tibetan guy who's ancient. Yeah, okay
That's pretty good and people are pushing back. I don't know why a little strange
That we should pick presidents. I would probably be better. It would be better. So
It would probably be better. It would be better.
So, Madame Tingley, she's now called.
She goes on a world tour, right?
Now she's the leader.
Madame Tingley's doing a world tour.
And sounds like a Beatles album.
When she goes on her tour, Annie Besant and her followers
follow the tour and give rebuttals the next day
in every theater she gives a talk in.
That's pretty good.
So the rebuttal tour follows.
Yeah. Yeah, I like that. Catherine calls Basant an elitist and said her mind
aura reading abilities were quote all Bosch. All Bosch, which is...
Bulli. Rubbish. Rubbish. Rubbish. So she says she consults with the
Mahatma in Tibet which gives her more cred to be
a leader.
Now a lot of these credible sources, they are communicating telepathically.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's just tough to prove.
I don't doubt it.
There's no proof whatsoever.
It's tough to prove.
Right.
So now she renames the United Brotherhood of Theosophists.
On January 24th, 1897, two mysterious men bought 120 acres on Point Loma.
Beautiful, isn't it?
Gorgeous.
Which is a peninsula just north of downtown San Diego.
Now...
That's where we are. Are we here?
Are we?
Yeah.
Sure.
Oh, that's nice.
Pam Diego.
I wondered where we were.
Yeah, San Diego.
No one understood why they brought the windy, worthless hilltop of Cumbling Standstone.
The men won't say why they're there.
The mysterious men.
Yes.
They were staying at the Brewster Hotel under fake names.
Cool.
The San Diego Union reported they made, quote, mysterious trips to Point Lomo for 10 straight
days.
Were these men mysterious?
Yes.
Okay.
The paper said one refused to talk about what they were doing, quote, to a suspicious degree.
And the other one was like, I'll be honest. actually we're scouting some oh right sorry yeah yeah right
Tibetan Mahapa let's talk later I'm at I'm staying at the Brewster under Joe
Rogan. What? I don't know what we? We can't both be mysterious. Nobody's gonna like us.
I know, but you're dropping too much.
Yeah, too. Yeah, but that's what makes you so mysterious.
No.
It's mysterious cop, honest cop.
I don't, nobody, no.
You keep doing what you do. I got this.
No, no, you don't. I'm-
This is Fred.
Fuck.
He's awesome. He's a great guy.
He loves to do push-ups. Do something.
Oh, fuck. I'm not gonna do push-ups.
He loves it.
That's all I'll say about him.
He just... He is in love with a woman,
but it's unrequited.
Don't touch me!
All right! Jesus.
Uh, the reporter questioned them more
and reported that they didn't know the difference between an orchard and a grove
Idiots stupid you imagine that
Orchard and a grove different. Yeah. Yeah, you know the difference. He's going to explain. Yeah
Yeah, but he knows it the difference is obvious. Yeah. Yeah the difference between an orchard and a grove. Yeah
Yeah, you know, I would say what it is. Oh, yeah, I know He knows it. The difference is obvious. Yeah. The difference between an orchard and a grove.
Yeah.
Yeah, go on.
You guys not know?
You know, say what it is.
Oh yeah, I know.
No, no. It's your thing, man.
It's not my thing.
Yeah, it is.
No, it's the reports then.
Difference between an orchard and a grove.
Right now, let's go.
Come on.
One's got trees and the other has trees.
One there in rows and not in rows.
More and more men came.
Some men never left the hotel.
I'm sorry.
There were 15 when the land was finally bought for $12,000.
And the two men finally signed the real names Edward Rambo. A lawyer.
Yeah.
Fuck yeah.
Here we go.
We're taking the legs out now.
Yeah, finally I signed a proper lease.
That's right, it's mainly mine now.
Do what you want.
You want some pieces, you want an anchor?
Come fucking get it.
Over my dead body.
What's the other guy?
So Rambo was a lawyer and...
Yeah, I practiced law.
And the whole system's on trial.
And I...
Objection!
Objection, you know what I mean?
It's crazy right now.
Yeah, objection.
Yeah, the whole... Permission to a person to pay. Crazy right now. Yeah. Yeah objection. Okay. Yeah
permission to approach the page
No for answer stay away from the approach in the bay away from the approach the bench and once I get to it I'm gonna lift over 250 pounds. I
Know yeah
It's not that kind of bitch sustained. What the fuck? What do you mean?
Doesn't make any sense.
Yeah, bicep curls.
Five minutes, let's go.
I want to go to your quarters.
Hey.
Careful.
Yeah.
What?
Shut up.
Lunch.
Let's have lunch.
No.
At some point we got to.
Well, not right now.
Yeah, but soon we will.
Maybe. Let's have lunch. Let's have lunch. No. Well, at some point we got to.
Well not right now.
Yeah, but soon we will.
Maybe.
Shut up.
Objection.
Fuck you.
USA, baby.
Never better.
Permission to treat the attorney as an idiot.
Permission denied.
That's top secret. The other guy was CA Griscum who was the VP of the
American Navigation Company which owned four Atlantic ships. Hello. Which raises
more questions people like what are they turning this into a harbor are they
gonna build a casino? Yeah it's gonna be a harbor casino? Yeah. It's going to be a harbor casino.
It's going to be water bucks.
The evening Tribune headline was, what does it mean?
That's what we bought you for.
We are lost too.
Holy shit! So a construction company was hired to build a 120 foot long building
for $4,100. Locals were told it would be a school, quote, for the revival of the
lost mysteries of antiquity. Oh thank God! We were worried and then we heard what it
was. That's great, good. Because there were just so many...
Well, that's great.
Antiquities.
Antiquities.
Just what you want in the late 1800s is that school.
So a man revealed he was president of the International Theosophical Society.
He said it was not a religion, it was the truth of all religions.
That puts you at ease.
Oh, we were... That's good.
Yeah. Truth used to thrive, then came centuries of darkness,
science and philosophy went into hiding.
And now it's time for a comeback.
Fuck yeah.
In a society that's like, we're pretty, we feel pretty good.
We don't know if we're really...
No.
It's been dormant long enough.
It's time for truth.
It's a truth cicada.
Yeah, I'll approve it. I'll allow it.
Hey, finally.
Oh, fuck. No, I'm just saying, it'll allow it. Hey, finally. Oh, fuck.
I'm just saying, it's pretty good you finally come around.
We're not so different, you and I.
When this is all over, I'd like to buy you a beer.
And I know you'd like it. You drunk.
Do you?
Don't engage directly. Do you? Do you they say like it's in a rocky voice?
If it were in a rocky voice.
Do they say he's doing it in a rocky voice?
But it's in a Rambo voice.
There's a big difference.
God damn it.
No, that's not a Rambo.
It's not a Rambo?
That is a Rambo voice.
Same thing, what's the difference?
Same thing, far different.
No.
I did find out what your voice was.
I wasn't too sure myself.
Jesus Christ.
It's a Rambo.
The guy's name's Rambo.
Yeah, that's big. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. No, I did what your voice was I wasn't too sure myself Jesus Christ
It's a Rambo the guy's name is Rambo
Yeah, that's better Rambo Rambo
Rambo right here close your eyes close your eyes close your eyes. Let's snip at a rock. Here we go ready
Nobody knows you will be able to tell I can walk you through it Rambo Hey, you you know, we have to fight We have to either fight him over there stop over here Rocky. I want a shot at the title. I
Deserve it
Rambo, oh my god, there's a bunch of them in the woods. We have to get him
Rocky, I don't fuck it dig deep enough. I might have to go train at a barn for a little while
Different no, Yes very different. No. They get it. Yo I got this machine gun I'm gonna have to use this machine gun to get rid of all these enemies. Yo I don't
even know if I'm gonna be able to complete the training for this next
match.
I'm going into the hills. Like that?
What's that?
Fuck you.
Your whole thing's bullshit.
That's not funny, mummy.
No, no, he's just being rude to your boy.
Your second favorite son.
Yeah, don't be rude to a boy.
Your first favorite's here tonight, too.
Wait, what did you say?
No, no, no. Sir, we don't like the way that you just asked
where my brother is.
That was really fucking weird.
Nobody in my family is comfortable.
Where's the first born?
Hey, yo, we're gonna fight the first born.
We're gonna take care of it.
Hey, yo, relax.
No, we're not.
We're gonna fight him with our hands.
We're gonna fight him with a gun.
Hey, together we are Rocky and Rambo.
Fuck off.
We teamed up. We're totally different this time.
Yo, my eye hurts from getting punched so much.
I'm bleeding a bunch from bullets.
No, no, no.
Go, Sean!
Well, actually, I'm really scanning the audience
for the family.
I got this.
That's the level of attention we're paying you for, man.
Do you think they left?
Wouldn't surprise me.
They're out there.
Yeah, it's really funny.
Yo, they're out there somewhere.
Oh, they're fucking out there.
I'll find them.
Hold on.
I need some grass.
They're over there with me.
What the fuck are you doing?
I'm figuring out where they are through the trail.
By sucking your fingers.
Is that how you know?
No, I picked up some grass.
You think your fingers are going to be okay? I'm going to be okay. I'm going to be okay. I'm going to be doing? I'm figuring out where they are through the trail.
By sucking your fingers, is that how you know?
No, I picked up some grass.
Oh.
You lick your fingers to find out where people go?
Yeah.
I know exactly where you were earlier.
Yo, leave him alone.
We got a fight to focus on, not me.
Now which one are you there?
Who are you there?
I think he's from the Bronx tale now.
Is that Sylvester Stallone?
Sure. Are you fucking kidding me right now? That was from the Bronx tail now. Yeah, it says is that Sylvester Stallone sure
Are you fucking kidding me right now?
Yeah, yes, yes, yes, mom, that was Sylvester Stallone.
She makes a really good point.
That was a gutting moment.
Did he do both parts?
Jesus Christ!
There'll be no more questions
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Anyway, they bought that land and they were opening a school, right?
Yeah.
So they can open this school.
And they're still conning people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I've got it.
The school will study divine wisdom and all can attend.
And the leader, also known as the outer head,
was Madame Tingley, who would arrive on February 23rd
to lay the temple cornerstone.
So Tingley is gonna be like the head mistress.
She's the head, sure.
Yeah, that's what you call them, right?
Yeah, it's a brothel.
Yeah, she's. Is it not? Yeah, the head mistress of a brothel, yes. Yeah, that's what you call them, right? Yeah, it's a brothel. Is it not?
Yeah, the headmistress of a brothel, yes.
Thank you.
They chose Point Loma because
California is geologically
the oldest part of the continent.
Proven.
That's proven.
For sure.
So, Tingley would later say
she had a childhood dream of a quote, white city in a golden land
by the sundown sea.
Well, she came to the right country.
Definitely a white city.
It's a very white city.
Oh, I'm thinking of La Jolla?
What am I thinking of?
That's very real good.
So, the night before the cornerstone ceremony, a two hour public meeting was held at Unity Hall.
800 locals were inside, 200 people had to be turned away,
and a panel of high Theosophists were introduced.
And they explained their beliefs, and that Point Loma would be...
It's like Aliens Land.
Yeah, 100%.
We're opening a school. Relax. we are going to teach our children.
Calm down.
We've been communicating with mummies.
So they said Point Loma would be the world center for theosophy.
Once said...
Again, we don't understand what the hell theosophy is.
Relax, we are trying to teach our children about theosophy.
We like what we're teaching them now.
Algebra, corn, the big ones.
We will teach them on our point.
Yo, everybody relax.
We're gonna do a heated, which I can empathize with.
I've been there.
Lot of times I feel like I'm fighting a battle
against a lot of times I feel like I'm fighting a battle against a lot
of people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
One said there was a difference between Christianity and
churchianity.
One of the who?
One of the theosophists.
That sounds like something they'd say.
Is the difference between Christianity and churchianity
making Christianity sound like a cult.
He said infants must be separated from their parents and their selflessness at birth.
Well, you got on board pretty quick, didn't you, out there?
You're like, this guy's exactly right.
The children must be taken away at birth.
All right, relax, fellow.
You're really pushing it, relax.
They will be put in mountains
and then they will figure it out on their own.
He said America was young and growing
and souls of great leaders would reincarnate here.
This is where the souls will reincarnate.
It's perfect.
Cause souls were really into growth
and America was growing, especially California.
Point Loma would be quote, the Athens of the West.
You get out of our city, you son of a bitch.
Fucking weirdo.
They will all live in this lamp.
All right, stop it.
So the next morning, a caravan goes up the 300 foot climb on Point Loma. People rent
every vehicle in town. Liveries, carriages, open air tally hose.
One person caskets.
Yes. Solo caskets.
Casket? Where you headed, man? The San Diegan son wrote that they were all, quote, loaded to the brim.
People rushed up to get the best view.
Many were coming to see if the blasphemy would offend them.
So typical.
Well, I'm going to go on up there to see if this really pisses me off.
I want to find out if I'm going to be triggered.
I'm going to point trigger.
I'm going to go up there and see if I'm going to be triggered. I'm going to point trigger.
I'm going to go up there and see if I'm pissed.
Others want to see the mysterious Madame Tingley.
Others want to be part of a quote,
one of the most notable occasions of its kind ever witnessed on earth.
Wow.
So some people are like,
I want to get a look at Tingley.
I want to be here for the most important moment in history.
Now relax, fella.
I was told there'd be free sandwiches.
I'm just looking to get mad.
I was actually on a hike.
What's going on?
So it's completely packed.
There's just tons of people.
The Chamber of Commerce provided an evergreen arch.
We did our part.
I think a lot of people question where the money goes and then you get an arch like this
and you realize, yeah, we have a $400 million a year budget, but holy God, is that green?
Two people at a time can walk under that too.
You like that?
Yep.
That's a...
It means they had an evergreen arch hanging around.
Yep.
Because it was the next day.
Like they...
Yeah.
Yeah, that's what we prepared for.
That's where all the money's going.
We were ready to go.
You needed us and we were there.
Yeah.
You said you were afraid that we had an occupying force opening a school well
look at that leafy archway whoo pretty good huh it's a IV nope nope that's long
clippings we glued them together ivy's super expensive oh it's not yeah well we
tried it grows anywhere we can find it if you know where all the ivy is
Why don't you go get a bunch of and bring it to our office wise ass?
Notes from you right now. We got an arch and it's pretty evergreen
Yeah, it's like weeds some of it is weed, but most of it is grass weed
Yeah, some of its weed. I said weeds some of it is is, what do you want it, what, what, what, are you a cop?
I am a cop.
You are?
Yes.
Well, then you probably should just relax and I respect the badge.
Pack the blue.
Give me that boot.
It's fucking close.
That guy's a cop.
Yeah, that's right.
So a triangle was clanged.
A what?
A triangle was clanged.
Oh, was clanged?
Clanged.
Okay.
It was what?
Clanged.
You know?
Oh, I see what you mean.
Yeah.
I used to play that at school.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no.
You definitely put the most talented musicians there.
I was a big part of the audience.
Yeah, yeah, no, you were like, they were like,
what instrument do you want to play?
And you were like, I want to be challenged.
I want the one which I can drink at recess and play after.
Yes.
Did you really play the triangle?
I did.
And how do you feel about that?
Terrible.
Yeah.
Absolutely deflated.
Did you ever mess up the triangle? Yes, of course I did. What do you how do you feel about that a terrible yeah if we
got you one would you remember how to play it oh gosh it's very difficult
she's got it on the ground why won't it ding properly supposed to ding louder
hold it like this and then you'd go I like how your mom We all know how the triangle works and we the fact that you're like no. No you had to it was elevated
You had to hold it and then you know like that
Yeah, oh
Oh my god, I can almost hear it I can almost hear it And then you go like this. Yeah. And like that. Oh! And you go like that.
Oh my God, I can almost hear it.
I can almost hear it.
Tinkly!
Any questions?
No, just...
Oh!
Tinkly!
Tinkly!
Tinkly!
That's where it came from.
And you thought there was just one stoner in the family.
Wait, what?
We were making an evergreen arch, dude.
Relax.
So when the triangle is clanged, a 20-piece city guard band
plays, and then two rows of men and women in purple robes walk
out of a tent.
That's not great.
And stand in two lines at walk out of a tent. That's not great.
And stand in two lines at the arch.
Not great.
Then came Madame Tingley in a long purple robe,
purple and gold scarf, a parchment in one hand,
and a tin box in the other.
If you were in,
like if you lived near, you'd be like,
well we gotta sell the house now.
We gotta sell the house right now.
I really thought we picked a good spot.
This is crazy.
This is like Barnum and Bailey fucked the Wizard of Oz.
We gotta move.
Papers described her as quote, not tall.
So what do you got?
You got the story?
We gotta run it tonight.
Yeah.
All right, here we go.
What do you got? She was, story? We got to run it tonight. Yeah. All right, here we go. What do you got?
She was, what did you get for the ceremony?
Madam Tingley, there she was, all in glory.
What do you got?
Not tall.
Not tall, all right.
Short.
Yeah.
I totally forgot to have a word for that.
Yeah, yeah, no, short is a word.
No, I'd say she's medium.
All right, so the height is average?
Yep.
I mean, even the one thing you said.
Not tall.
Yeah, right, yeah, right, all right.
You're really descriptive.
All right, what else you got?
We were out there for two hours.
She was tingly.
Yeah, all right.
A vigorous woman with a stout frame.
That's, nah, Rita's not gonna love that.
With a stout frame.
Stout.
Stout frame.
Gray, restless eyes.
Like there's a squirrel in them. Is she dead?
And a mass of dark hair.
Okay.
Gray eyes.
Medusa?
So the ceremony was really boring.
Everyone was expecting like a firebrand, like preacher type, but she just spoke in normal tones.
Hello. This is fine.
We love purple.
She put the tin box, which held their key documents, in a granite hole and sealed it with mortar.
That's not normal.
That's normal. That's how you do it.
Okay. Like you've ever's not normal. That's normal. That's how you do it.
Okay.
Like you've ever been to Tibet.
It's true.
And then followers started chanting, ohm.
And then some read excerpts and then the American flag was raised.
That's just for the people of the town who are like, well, I guess.
As long as they love America.
Can't be that bad, right? I mean, they are Americans.
All right. I mean, it was weird that she buried that key in mortar.
But hey, that person who played the triangle was pretty bad, huh?
Yeah, that was ridiculous.
She put it on the ground.
She just and then she said, clang.
Yeah, clang ridiculous. She put it on the ground. She just, and then she said, clang.
Yeah, she clang into a microphone.
Madame Tingley was announced as Humanity's Friend, and she read about the school, which
would cost $300,000.
Other people spoke, the president said the school was not to, quote, develop psychic
qualities and abnormal freaks.
Hey, let me tell you what this school's not.
It's not to develop psychics or freaks.
Hope everyone's comfortable with what it is.
Abnormal freaks.
Abnormal freaks, yeah.
Regular freaks.
Which you must, some might find redundant.
Yeah.
But no, this is for regular freaks.
Yeah, regular freaks.
Nothing abnormal.
You know, like a guy who puts his pants on a little tight
or a guy who wears too many hats
or someone who, you know, spits when they talk.
Yeah.
Normal.
Normal.
Fine.
Fine.
Yeah.
Six days after the ceremony,
Annie Passant arrives in San Diego.
She's the one who wanted to...
She was the heir apparent.
Right.
Yeah.
And this was all stolen.
Yeah, basically.
She came to lecture on quote,
man's invisible bodies,
also known as human auras,
at the Fisher Opera House.
A follower had arrived the day before
and told the San Diego Union quote,
we represent the original
Theosophic society, we are, however, as American as Tingley's. Please bear in mind and don't
try to involve me in any controversy. She thought the stuff she was saying was off the
record. But the Union printed her quotes under the headline, quote, nest of free lovers.
Ah, what?
But she's not even saying that.
Well, she, I think she did off the record.
Oh, she did.
She was like, it's a nest for free lovers.
Quote, schools like Point Loma usually degenerate into free love-ism.
Uh-ism. And then the lady said, Tingley would turn everyone off of theosophy.
And Tingley was in Chicago at that point, and she responded that Besant preached, quote,
ghostology.
This, but isn't everyone like, what the fuck are you all talking about?
Yeah.
Like we're caught in like a feud between, she's a ghostologist, she's
a theologianist. We like gravy and math. That's what we're into here.
She also said talks of mummies masquerading under the cloak of true beliefs. So they're
just talking shit at each other. Like you say, no one knows what they're talking about.
Right.
The San Diego Sun headline was quote, she is angry.
And it print, the headlines are the best.
Yeah, they're great, yeah.
Yeah, everyone at the San Diego Sun is like, I got this.
Leave this to me.
It printed letters from Basant's follower about talking to the union off the record
and claimed to not have discussed free love.
So whatever, they're fighting in the paper.
Sure.
In February 1888, the Spanish-American War begins.
Yep.
And wounded soldiers are pouring in.
Tents are overflowing at this hospital and a theosophist doctor asks for Catherine to
come and help. So she comes with
staff and she takes care of about 9,000 troops. And then she goes to Cuba to help the wounded.
And while there, she has an idea. She doesn't what? She has an idea. Okay. Oh. To teach
theosophy to Cuban children. Quote, I could convert the whole island in five years. Oh, Jesus Christ.
She said she quickly had 300 applications.
OK.
Now the publisher and editor of the LA Times
is Harrison Gray Otis.
He was also vice president of the Associated Press.
He fought in the Civil War with the Union
and reached the rank of Lieutenant Colonel.
But for now reason, some reason, everyone called him General Otis.
General Otis?
Yeah, he was not a general, but now he's called General.
Sure.
Because he probably walks around like that.
Yeah, exactly.
Everyone's like, ooh la la.
He hated everything.
This one was for making canoes.
This one was for knowing every preposition in the preposition song.
This one was for wearing me woggle. Yes.
That's a sheriff's badge.
This is a sheriff's badge. I stole that.
Those are buttons.
This one says that I lost my glasses once.
This is one that the guy who made Transformers gave me.
One time I went to the cockpit of the plane and the pilot gave me one of these
and he let me pull a wire out and he said put it back in and I did and he said I was a good boy
and that I could fly the plane if I wanted but I didn't. And then this one's just some buttons
that I probably didn't need but you, I love buttons. Two by two.
And then these shoulder pads are done by curtains. Ah!
So he-
Pants aren't my friend.
He hates everything that is not right wing.
He hates unions, Democrats, anarchists.
One of his mottos was, quote,
everybody likes to see somebody else kicked,
preferably below the belt.
What?
What?
That is psychotic.
Everyone likes to see someone kicked in the crotch.
Trust me, I'm a captain.
Eh, not really.
My wife makes costumes. On May 3rd, 1899, the
Times ran an exposé on the Theosophical Colony. In the summer of 1900, Catherine
permanently moves to Loma Land, which is now the center of the earth. What? It's the
center of the earth. That's what they said it is.
Prove it's not.
You just said it like you believe it.
It's what it is.
The center of the earth?
Fuck yes.
Sorry, wouldn't that be further inside the earth?
No.
Oh, right.
Glad we talked.
What a weird time to yell that.
That's coming from him.
The Raha Yoga School.
Did he just say sorry?
I think so.
The Raha Yoga School at the first U.S. Greek amphitheater?
The society was growing and had a few very wealthy dudes.
One who was Albert Spalding, the ex-commissioner of Major League Baseball and founder of Spalding
Sporting Goods.
Oh, shit.
That guy keeps popping up.
Yeah.
That guy's a fucking psycho.
Yep.
So he builds this really big home near the Roman looking entrance to Loma land.
I want something that looks really fucking crazy.
Do you have that?
Yes, we're out of our minds.
He also built the nine hole golf course.
What?
Well, fuck it, I'm rich.
More buildings popped up.
But it looks like it's out of some crazy 60s science fiction movie.
They have green and amethyst domes and spires.
Loma land was San Diego's top tourist attraction.
100 people a day came to see it.
They started charging 10 cents admission
because people kept ruining vegetation
and hassling young women.
Jesus Christ.
So, but what I can understand is just guys in the bushes
going, hey, hey, hey, you're a sweet thing.
What are you doing out there?
You getting a little magical shit in you?
I got magic.
I got, oh.
I got some smokes.
Smokes.
I got a lamp for you.
Members of the-
I'm actually just so lonely.
I never was taught how to talk to women.
So I ended up squatting in a bush and yelling at yous.
But none of you seemed to be responding to what I'm doing.
I just, I'm lonely.
I tried to connect with some women before but they were so rude to me.
So I figured that didn't work so the next best thing was for me to come here every day
and sit in the bush and just shout stuff at you.
Hey, you got 10 cents for admission?
Yeah.
Oh, fuck.
I really thought that would work.
Yeah, I got it.
Now it turns out some of them have, they have 10 cents.
So it was a really good idea,
but that's not gonna to keep him out.
Can I hit him with a hammer in the head and just break his fucking skull?
Hey, I have like right in the ear shit.
Oh, hey.
Sorry, I was talking to that bush.
I was kind of starting to have an epiphany as far as how I should approach people of
the opposite sex that I'm attracted to, but then you just said you were
going to kill me with a hammer?
I mean, this place is a mystery.
Yeah, but that was like so crazy to hear.
Like I was just starting to piece together the idea that maybe I should just be like,
how are you?
And stuff like that.
Yeah.
What do you like to do?
Yeah.
But I'm not even going to have a chance to do that anymore,
because the moment that I'm like kind of sitting
under my personal bow tree, experiencing
somewhat of a moment of clarity, you've
decided that you're going to hammer murder me?
Yeah, right in the skull.
Yeah, all right.
Well.
I'm going to crack that thing like a fucking egg.
Yeah, just totally two different.
But in like a mystical way, like the old Tibetan.
Alright.
Like it'll be like I can get killed by an old...
Look, here's the dime. Go fuck yourself.
Okay, thank you.
Now you can do whatever you want.
Alright, cool. I'm gonna...
I'm whacking off in here anyway.
LAUGHTER
So, members of the Brotherhood began patrolling day and night,
some of them armed.
Cool. So members of the Brotherhood began patrolling day and night, some of them armed.
Cool.
Loma Land had programs for theater and music.
So they had music, they had resident artists and forestry and horticultural programs,
and they had a print shop.
So, the LA Herald writes that Loma Land was spooky. It said if one question...
You get it.
It said if one question Catherine, she would cast their soul into the black lodge with
the quote dark forces against which the loyal are ever battling.
Whoa.
And it also noted that she did not live in a cave.
And by the way, she doesn't live in a cave either.
Feels like she definitely lives in a cave.
What?
So she's gonna do all that and not live in a cave.
All right.
Catherine focused on raising funds for Loma Land.
The OG theosophists were still angry.
It's weird how like the deity they communicate with
never has access to funds.
Like never is like there's a bunch of treasure I bury.
There's like go panhandle.
I know all.
Go talk to people.
Go, hey, I know all.
Except how to get cash.
All right, how should we get money?
I don't know.
You guys could give it to us?
Yeah, go get a bunch of it somehow.
Find rich people.
Charge a dime to walk around.
So the original group of theosophists are still angry,
and co-founder Henry Alcott comes to lecture
to quote, set the record straight.
He had been the first American Buddhist,
but then switched to theosophism,
and the New York Times called him a, quote,
unmitigated rascal.
Which is like safe language,
but also I wouldn't even trust them
to tell me who a rascal is anyway.
No. So he's going, he's coming to speak at the theater That's like safe language, but also I wouldn't even trust them to tell me who a rascal is anyways.
No.
So he's coming to speak at the theater in the hotel dell, and then Catherine calls the
hotel manager and tells him to cancel the lecture or she wouldn't allow any hotel guests
to ever come to Loma land again.
So that guy kills the speech and then Olcott instead speaks at the
Fisher Opera House and 400 people show up. But the speech wasn't the attack they were
hoping for, he just kind of pushed his society as better than Catherine's.
Okay. So Catherine speaks the next night and she's
attacking Olcott and Basant's table wrapping spiritualism. But they okay.
But that's okay.
It is definitely weird to have the cleanup tour following still.
Yeah.
A year later.
The venue is like for sure, yeah, we're booking a lot.
They're like, can you not book them anymore?
What do you want?
I mean, a booking is a booking.
With availability.
A year later she buys the opera house to stop any opposition speeches.
What?
She can't do that a lot though.
So she wants to organize the local kids for quote, unsectarian and non-contentious lotus
groups.
And they're kids.
Now non-contentious.
You know, fighting in the Lotus groups. She signs up 50 what are called Lotus Buds, and they met to learn about nature, music,
and rhythmic motion.
Which, that's a bit much for local Reverend Clarence True Wilson.
So he gives a sermon against theosophy,
quote, reincarnation is a fad.
Come on, the kids are doing it for a little while,
then it won't be back.
He also said it could do nothing for people's sins.
And so this leads to a fight between theosophists
and Christians in the local papers.
In the Union prints a document signed by 17 ministers
who said they had stayed too silent for too long.
Quote, it is subversive of truth and righteousness.
We are not heathens stretching out our hands
to point Loma for help.
San Diegans ought to protest this bold affrontory.
And so this just made the universal brotherhood more popular.
Sounds like, yeah, we've been silent long enough.
We want to elevate them.
So President William McKinley, who was shot on September 5th, dies over the next month.
And papers.
But he comes back.
No.
Oh.
That's the other guy.
J-Town
He he just rolled the boulder side and came out
Hello roller skates. I'm roller skating out of a boulder that makes sense out
He rolled the boulder aside. He didn't go through a fucking boulder. Well, whatever more badass
Why do you roll it aside't that be more badass?
Why didn't he roll it aside?
Wouldn't it be more badass to jump through the boulder?
But he can do so much stuff.
He was in a fucking man cave and he came out.
Bro.
Yeah.
A jam pad, if you will.
He should have launched himself through the boulder,
exploded it, then landed.
I'm not going to follow anyone who's moving the boulder, exploded it, then landed.
I'm not gonna follow anyone who's moving the boulder and then roller skating.
Come on, dude.
Weak ass.
Weak.
Oh, fuck it.
That's how the podcast ends,
we beat each other with microphone.
In front of your mom.
In front of my mother?
Ah, ah!
I don't know who to defend.
What?
What?
What are you talking about?
Well, it's either
her son or your
future stepfather. Stop it.
Her son or the benefactor.
No. mother!
Good Lord.
So McKinley's shot, over the next month he dies, so papers start going after anarchists
and dangerous women like Emma Goldman.
And the LA Times went after Katherine Tingley. Headlines like quote
crank institution, the spook's nest, startling tales from Tingley, more spook
debate. It claimed purple toward San Diego in an open carriage like a queen
and quote denied the fatherhood of God. So the time said she
was a tyrant overseeing gross immoralities practiced by the disciples
of spookism. Yep absolutely. Yes. Yeah some great headlines. Yeah.
Catherine called Americans overfed. Oh come on. not. Well, let me walk you through the Crackle Barrel.
Yes!
She's obviously never heard of Golden Corral.
Eh.
Overfed?
Ah!
We are.
Stout.
Become a problem.
Stout, people.
We're stout.
We're stout.
Golden Buffet!
Come on.
So the Time Center followers ate so little,
they were ethereal.
It said she claimed her dog Spot
was the reincarnation of William Judge.
I mean.
Can you deny that?
Who's a good judge?
Well, William Judge pissed under the bed again.
I don't know what he's trying to tell us, but he looked guilty.
It also said she was called Boss Spook and had children taken from their parents.
Jesus.
Now she was sued by a guy named William Griswold who claimed she had held his 16-year-old daughter
against her will.
Interesting. So the teen's mother had been in Loma land and died,
but then the 16 year old was like, I want to stay here.
Okay, the six year old?
16.
16, okay, yeah, so I thought.
And her father was in Denver
and she didn't go live with him.
She's like, no, I'm good.
Denver, that's a testament to how bad Denver is.
You know what, I'll stay here, honestly.
This is, I'll take my chances
here with these purple robed. In court.
Yo, I'm your new dad. What?
I'm your dad now. No.
Yeah. Which dad?
Which? Rambo. Hold on.
Which one are you? No, what do you mean who am I? It's obvious who I am. I'm Rambo. I
stand for the lander. Are you the guy from Fist?
From Fist?
The movie Fist?
What are you talking about?
That's you also.
No.
First of all, I don't think I was in Fist, but if I was, that was a different time.
I'm looking- hey!
Quiet!
Are you Vinny Barberino?
No.
Are you John Travolta of any kind?
No, I'm not.
Yeah, he's also here, but you don't want to talk to him, I'm assuming. Is that him?
No, it's not. No.
I know who you are.
No, I'm Rambo.
You're the Fonz.
No, not Fonz. No.
No, I'm Rambo. I'm a raising 16 year old. Be mine.
She's going to be just like me. Yeah, she's going to be Team Rambo, and I'm gonna raise a 16 year old to be mine. She's gonna be just like me.
Yeah, she's gonna be Team Rambo.
And I don't want anymore fucking guesses as to who I am.
Because I've been pretty clear,
you can hear what I sound like,
and I've been saying Rambo the whole time.
I'm Rambo.
That's right.
Nah, yeah, just relax. Yeah, relax
I'm like pissed off at you. You don't need like keep checking in with me. There's beef
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you hit in the locker
The what you hit in the meat locker the beef. No, that's
Dude, I'm like
They had some respect I'm American icon jump back in whenever you ready but like so they go to court and the guy touches his daughter's arm in court and asks, quote, do you remember
your papa?
I did that to you once.
You said I was creepy.
No.
You remember your papa?
It was 3 a.m.
You remember your papa?
Yes.
I was actually in bed.
I remember.
So it's weird.
Do you remember your papa?
No.
I don't. No. I don't want to. No. No. Do you even remember your papa?
No.
I don't.
No, I don't want to.
Okay.
Please go away.
Did you bring the smart pop up here?
No.
What?
Oh.
All right.
Sleep good.
No.
What?
I can't sleep good.
All right.
I'll sleep.
Okay. Bye. Bye? Why are you still standing there?
I'm pissing.
So after he asked, do you remember your papa, she screamed to him to get his hands off her
and Priswell's attorney then looked at the judge and said he should dismiss the case.
It should probably be dismissed.
This doesn't look good for the case. It should probably be dismissed. This doesn't look good for the trial.
So after that trial it seems like General Otis is even more angry. Oh wow.
And days later he prints a story claiming quote, outrages at
Point Loma. Women and children starved and treated like convicts but there's no
proof. It's just it's called the place of horror where armed men guard people like inmates
locked in cells at night.
Breaking rules meant hard labor and solitary confinement,
and even starvation.
So nothing in these articles came from,
directly from the supposed sources.
They all came secondhand from some other person
who was saying it.
Okay.
So that night, Catherine speaks at the Fisher Opera House and calls local ministers, quote,
Cat's paws in the hands of my enemies.
Sure.
Someday, I shall publish a list of Christian ministers who have been in court on the charge
of adultery.
Ooh.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When they could marry.
They'd be fucking...
Yeah. When they could marry. They'd be fucking. Yeah.
She called the accusations a false and part of a conspiracy
to destroy her, and then she filed a lawsuit against the LA
Times for libel for $50,000.
That's $100 million in today's money.
That's $700 million.
$7 billion.
That's one Elon Musk.
And a Musk. It's a Musk's worth. One. Seven billion dollars. That's one Elon Musk. Elon Musk.
It's a Musk's worth.
One lottery win.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
Three quarters of a Zuckerberg.
Yeah.
The San Francisco Chronicle printed a letter by Jerome Anderson, an ex-Tingly cabinet member.
I used to be tingly.
No, I don't tingle anymore.
The nerves are dead.
He said
she was doing things at Loma Land
that would quote, horrify the
founders of the Order. Men and
women got on their knees in front of her
and had to wear long gowns
and ridiculous hats
for foolish ceremonies.
Quote, I knew that pretty soon we would
have to crawl in the Miss Tingley's presence on all fours. It could worse
every visit. He doesn't have a good imagination. No, it's like you're
so used to cults nowadays that when you hear that I'm like oh my god. He's like
they would get down on their knees in front of her. I had to be a dog! And put on hats.
Weird hats.
So...
Anyway...
It's a nightmare in there.
You don't even want to know!
They're putting on hats that are weird!
They made me bark.
Anything else?
No, not really.
That's it.
Yeah, weird hats.
Pretty much it.
You know what a beer hat is?
Yeah.
They made me put on a beer hat.
Then I had a fucking dog.
Well, that's weird.
All right, let's take a five.
I was the dog.
Let's take a five.
Jesus Christ.
So sorry.
It's okay.
She's making jokes all about this stuff.
I'm becoming very tough.
Yeah, good.
You played the triangle.
Yeah, I did.
I did.
I was a star in my orchestra.
I mean, when I go back to Stourbridge, they all know me.
There's the triangle player.
There she is.
There she is.
She was in the Beatles until they asked her to leave.
She's shopping in Waitrose.
Look at her. Ding.
She claimed, he claimed she used society to make herself rich.
And then he sent a letter to a bunch of her enemies
saying babies weren't being fed enough
because she said it would quote, more quickly kill out
the animal nature if starved at first.
Well, and she's right.
Yes.
Science is proven. And he said she made boys wear anti-masturbation jackets
when they hit puberty.
Like you did with me.
It wasn't a jacket, it was trousers.
Stop masturbating and start living.
And what does fappy mean?
Fap!
The show's over everybody, the show's over.
Thank you so much for coming out.
Go ahead and tell her.
No.
You can, but I'm not.
It's a...
How are the girls over there describing this incident? Bad time for a check-in.
I was happy to...
So you got that, right?
I've got it now, yes.
Thank you.
That makes sense.
Sorry.
Thank you very much.
Can you show her?
I'm good.
We're moving.
So...
Is it in the English dictionary?
Stop!
Could we Google it? Moving. So. Is it in the English dictionary? Stop.
Could we Google it?
You're back to wireless.
So when she was in, when she was in Cuba,
she'd become friends with the Santiago mayor
and he helped her
import some Cuban orphans to educate.
And down to your pocket. So nine boys, nine boys and two girls sailed out with a few sophist doctor and
they were between five and ten years old. Now everyone knows they're coming so
everyone knows they're coming. So they get held at Ellis Island and then they're locked in a 6 by 12 room for
immigrants with infectious diseases.
Let's make that a national policy.
They had two cots and one gross sink. So the Post reports thousands of Cubans are protesting
in Cuba, burning US flags, demanding they be returned or they would restart the war.
And a board in New York holds an inquiry and a hearing.
And the president of the New York society for the prevention of cruelty to children,
Elridge Gary.
Gareth.
Gareth.
He testified they should go back to Cuba.
So the guy who is in charge of the New York society of the prevention of cruelty to children
wants to go back.
Go, they go back.
Go ahead.
And said Loma land was quote financially irresponsible and morally incompetent.
And he admitted that that was all hearsay.
But it was a vile place not meant for children.
Still, I said it and that's that.
We made it up, but yes.
Then the New York Tribune reported
there were no protests happening in Cuba after all,
and no one really cared.
Well.
And then Albert Spalding's there,
and he holds a press conference
to explain the deplorable conditions
the children are being held in.
And a week later, there's a new hearing.
And this time, Spalding is there, and he's cross-examined about Catherine.
Does she call herself the second coming of Christ?
That the plants marry and make kids?
That her dog is a reincarnated person?
And Spalding's all, that's ridiculous.
And then an ex-Lomeland member said Catherine wanted to be the second coming.
It would stop at nothing,
and she'd take a cult revenge on anybody who testified.
So the kids ended up being held for five weeks in New York.
And Tingley asked, at one point she said,
well come inspect Loma land so you can see it's fine.
And so four delegates come,
and she also invited the governor of California,
Governor Gage.
So they all saw normal stuff at the school,
very clean, a nice school.
There's a lot of discipline, a lot of discipline there.
The governor said there's no sign of anything wrong.
So the US Commissioner General inspects, reports,
the President Roosevelt now wants to know.
So it's all clean, the children are fine.
So the Cuban kids are allowed to
go to Loma land. Now, Eldren Jerry is fucking furious.
Of course. And he doesn't like to lose, so Spalding is
worried that if they take the kids through New York City that Jerry would have them arrested.
So he charters a yacht that comes to Ellis Island when it's really foggy and picks up the kids
and they head for New Jersey.
And on the New Jersey side, they have 12 large men waiting
who were members of Spalding's Athletic Club.
And the 12 men escort the kids to a train station.
And when they get there, they find out that yes,
New York City had issued seven warrants
to arrest the children.
And if they'd been caught, they would have had to stay in custody
Until they were 18. Holy shit. Oh, that's terrible
So the plan to get a yacht and then spalding defensemen was like very helpful. Yeah
So now they're worried they're not gonna make it to the west coast
So they get off the train an hour outside of Los Angeles and order a separate engine
and car to avoid LA and they get off in San Diego and from there they take a longer route
to Loma land.
But San Diego, the city is happy and excited and they give them a parade.
So the libel trial starts in December 1902 and Catholic's lawyer said they would need
police security for Loma land but the judge was like no, that's fucking what?
So the LA Times had always shit on San Diego.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, nobody. Otis treated, Otis had treated it like a quote municipal joke.
And he asked for a change of venue to impartial Los Angeles because San Diegans hated the
LA Times.
Yeah.
But the judge, the judge is like, no, you created that bias by writing shit, so that's your problem
The judge was Harold Torrance. He was a good judge, but he enunciated poorly. Oh what yeah?
What was that sir?
You want us to
Submit more evidence you know bad good but, goodbye, Chameleon.
What animals thought he's doing?
What animals thought he's doing?
No.
Not at all.
No?
A sheriff said, quote,
what he says is rarely heard over half the courtroom.
This may have been because he was chewing big wads of tobacco in court. He was back him out?
Yes.
The first day of the trial, Catherine showed up a couple hours late and she used a crutch
and winched with every single step.
She said she'd been sick the previous week due to the strain of Otis' attacks and worrying
about the Cuban children who were arriving that Saturday. And then I could, my leg got
broken. It was crazy. The words broke my leg. She said she'd also fallen down
stairs seven months before and had quote a severe congestion or meningitis of the
spinal cord. She needs to pick a lane. She's going with like everything. She's like
well I was so sick and from the children and then I fell downstairs and then I got
meningitis plus my brain's swelling and I'm pregnant with five kids.
And live?
Live.
And my arms hurt and I have scoliosis and diarrhea and astigmatism. Would you like. And one of my ears is infected.
Swimmer's ear.
And tennis elbow.
Would you like some Pepto-Bismo?
I can't.
Why?
I'm allergic to pink.
Life as a woman's been hard.
I'm not.
It's just crazy to say that.
Awful to say
Yeah, that's pretty bad
So
Sanctuous sick all this time allowed her to avoid giving a deposition and
The Herald said she looked quote wriggly plump
What else are you gonna say in a newspaper?
Yeah.
Okay.
She was, they bought, they brought her out a padded chair
and she sat slowly, put her foot on the matching footrest
and thanked the court as her mouth trembled.
Otis slumped and said, Otis always slumped. Yeah. I live slumping. He
slumped and said quote, my goose is cooked. So none of the jury are from San
Diego. They're all bearded guys from mining camps outside the city. Oh wow. His
lawyers tried to put Catherine on trial.
She was called many things, like a dangerous hypnotist
who bilked the rich and brainwashed
and held night orgies.
Well, day orgies are weird.
Yeah, night orgies are weird.
It's like, what are you going to do?
You know what I mean?
Yeah, night orgies are the way to go.
Cold cuts and fucking everyone?
That's kind of a weird vibe.
Yep.
Night orgy!
Nope.
They constantly use the word spook to try to attach it to her.
When she took the stand, her cane shook as she walked.
She claimed she had insomnia and could only work half as much
as before the articles had been printed.
She's still doing it.
I also have insomnia. I can't work as much. One of my toes is really bad. I have dry mouth.
You ever get that?
No.
Ugh. My BO is off the charts. There's nothing they can do. It's my sweat glands.
And I have osteoporosis and a lot of glandular stuff.
And I have a blinking issue.
My nostrils get so dry.
And it's not hay fever, but I do have that.
I also have that.
I have...
I lactate.
I do.
I'm going to own it.
I'm going to own it. My knee cracks when I goate. I do. I'm gonna own it. I'm gonna own it. My knee cracks when I go upstairs.
My ankle cracks when I go downstairs.
I have night terrors.
I'm a wet sleeper. I sleep, I soak when I sleep.
I'm afraid of water,
which makes it pretty tough because I love to swim, but I can't. But that's how I made a lot of my money.
I'm poor. God am I poor.
So poor from all that.
Plus I have a distinct jaw line.
But also a fat neck.
It's pretty hard to have both.
My brain is...did I mention I have brain swelling?
No.
Well I do.
It's pretty bad.
I got a tight skull too. I got a brain swelling and a tight skull. That, I do. Pretty bad. I got a tight skull, too.
I got a brain swelling and a tight skull.
That's not good.
It's a conundrum.
It's a cranium conundrum.
It's a crane-dundrum.
So I just asked you to say your name for the court.
Catherine.
And I forgot my last name.
So, General Otis takes the stand, but her lawyer does not grill him.
And Otis's lawyers had an ex-member testify, but he'd been writing her enemies for years,
so the judge struck
his testimony from the record.
But the Times printed everything the guy said.
Cool.
In closing arguments, Otis's lawyer said, quote, Madame Tingley is an enemy of all that
is good and pure and noble in our lives.
When the judge gave his instructions, he said he'd been threatened.
By the way, people are talking shit about me too.
Right, yeah. What was that, Your Honor?
I'm rib-jab-ri-tay.
Blah, blah.
The trial had lasted 19 days and was covered across the nation.
The Philadelphia ledger, quote,
Miss Tingley starved children.
Her dog spot a marvel of intelligence.
That's a judge.
her dog spot a marvel of intelligence. That's a judge.
She's starving children, but check out this dog.
Baltimore Sun, quote, took food from babies.
Miss Tingley subdued their animal natures.
Otis was president of the Associated Press,
so he was wiring these stories to every major newspaper.
Nice.
On January 12th, 1903, the jury found for Catherine,
and she got 7,500 in damages,
not the 50,000 she asked for.
Pretty sure my mother has just taken
to watching the ASL interpreters only at this point.
Yeah.
I'm fascinated, and I loved it.
Yeah, but you need to lock into this part.
This is your, she was just sitting there like this.
Yeah, but I'm trying to learn sign language.
Now's not the time to learn sign language.
It's not gonna happen.
I particularly-
We're bringing her in for a landing.
Just stick with Dave for a minute, will ya?
Can I just tell you a little bit that I did like
when you were talking about sweaty armpits or something.
And I liked the way she went like this with both her arms.
I thought it was really good. Very good that I thought.
Good. Well now you know how to say you have a gland issue. Thumbs up. Thumbs up.
Yeah, gland issue. Gland issue. Sweating gland issue. I wanted to see I'm giving her a thumbs up.
Yeah, you speak sign language. Way to go. Alright, lock in for the end here Pam.
She's not looking. Lock in for the end here. She is not looking. Stick with Dave for a minute, okay?
I actually don't want to be here anymore.
All right, that's fine.
That's fine.
Neither does Pam.
You should watch them, Dave.
They're very entertaining.
I actually, I have another job.
They do you really well.
I have to read, if I'm looking at them,
I can't read the story, so I kind of have to
concentrate on this.
Yeah, remember how we did it for the whole show?
Yeah.
Let's stick with that for the end here. let's just stick with that for the last bit
here it's really good yeah right glad you found the thing you like about the show
so after the jury read the damages they were getting, 7500, Otis said, quote, is that all?
And then said he would appeal to the Supreme Court.
Which he did and lost.
Nice.
So, the school goes on.
In 1913, Catherine organized an international peace conference held on a Swedish island where she owned property.
Hundreds came and not just theosophists.
World War I is coming.
So there's a lot of people like let's not do that.
We do it.
Losers.
So World War I arrives and Catherine contacts President Wilson, all 48 governors and 500
mayors asking them to declare September 28th, 1914 as a sacred peace day for the nations.
That's not what happened.
Peace activists were targeted and scorned during the war.
Nice.
And the public turns against Catherine.
And now Loma Land has looked at it completely differently.
When she tried to get draft exemptions for Ross yoga students in 1918, people were furious.
They stopped coming to the ISIS theater to hear her speak.
What's the theater?
ISIS.
She renamed the theater the ISIS theater.
ISIS.
ISIS.
ISIS.
ISIS.
Not like ISIS.
Not ISIS.
Not ISIS.
That would be a bad move.
Not that one.
They would go there and cut off heads.
It was fucked up.
They do have theaters.
It's bad to tell you.
Bad theaters.
No, it's great.
So this starts leading to money problems.
Now Loma Land is $500,000 in debt in 1925.
And now her richest supporters start bailing.
Some people died and then Catherine would fight their heirs in court to try to get the
money.
She would often fail.
She starts borrowing.
She mortgages the theater and then she mortgages Loma Land.
And finally she sells all of her property in the US and Cuba.
But her debt keeps increasing because she cannot stop spending money.
Wow.
In 1928 alone, she spent one million dollars.
Holy shit! And what? 1928?
Yeah.
That's a great time to not have any money.
That's going to be A-OK.
That's a great time to not have any money. That's going to be a-okay.
Tight budgets cause more people to leave and then the stock market crashes.
But she still spends away more than she brings in.
She's opening schools in different countries and states and they're all failing.
And then she was publicly accused of having an affair with a member and his wife sued and won $75,000.
Oh, God. So in the spring of 1929, Catherine was in a car accident in
Germany and she was badly injured but she told the doctor to go away when he
came to see her. She died on July 11th, 1929.
She should have sent the doctor away because the doctor's like, can I fix you?
She's like, no, the Mahabal will.
Her ashes were scattered at Point Loma.
It was thought Point Loma...
And then spend a million dollars.
Yes.
But it was through Point Loma that the yogi influence reached Southern California, attracting
thousands of visitors to the region.
The colony ceased to be regarded as heretical, and after her death, her successors transferred
the society to Covina, Covina, California.
Wow.
Hey, that's a downgrade, by the way.
Well, we've decided to move to beautiful Covina.
We're opening a branch in Victorville. Well, we've decided to move to beautiful Covina.
We're opening a branch in Victorville.
I really like this 7-Eleven.
But then they moved it to Pasadena where it currently still exists.
Holy shit, what?
So it's like a yoga thing.
Wow.
After all that.
Wow.
I don't know what the fuck just happened. Yeah, no, a lot happened. It's all really weird. After all that. Wow.
I don't know what the fuck just happened. Yeah, no, a lot happened.
It's all really weird.
Yeah.
Sources, encyclopedia.com,
and the many trials of Madame Tingley,
what theosophists found in San Diego by Jeff Smith.
Damn.
Very good.
Any quick final thoughts, Pam?
No, it was very good. It was very, very interesting.
Yeah, very interesting. Sustained your interest throughout?
Pardon?
Sustained your interest throughout?
Did it?
Well, yeah.
When I got to bit, like, my mind went a bit, I looked over there and found
that very interesting.
None of us noticed that bit.
Hawk I did.
Yeah, no shit. Well, that's wild, but we should get the fuck out of here. Can we thank Pam
Reynolds as our guest? And how about the ASL interpreters all four thank you very much come out
for a curtain call come on come on there you go great job we appreciate it we
appreciate you guys coming out thank you so much enjoy your evening thank you
farewell