Trump's Trials - Tensions flare as Stormy Daniels testifies about Trump and hush money scheme
Episode Date: May 7, 2024For this episode of Trump's Trials, All Things Considered host Juana Summers speaks with NPR's Andrea Bernstein and later, former White House special counsel Ty Cobb. Adult film actress Stormy Daniel...s testified about her alleged sexual encounter with Donald Trump in 2006 and hush money payment in 2016. Tensions were high as Daniels detailed her experience with Trump, sometimes in a level of detail that drew multiple objections from the defense and a mistrial request that was denied by the judge.Separately, former White House special counsel Ty Cobb discussed the possibility of Trump being sent to jail if he violates the judge's gag order again. Judge Juan Merchan has already found Trump violated the order 10 times and fined him 10 thousand dollars. Topics include:- Daniels testimony- Cross-examination of Daniels - Gag order- Can Trump be sent to jail Follow the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify for new episodes each Saturday.Sign up for sponsor-free episodes and support NPR's political journalism at plus.npr.org/trumpstrials.Email the show at trumpstrials@npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy
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It's Trump's Trials from NPR. I'm Scott Detro.
We love Trump!
This is a persecution.
He actually just stormed out of the courtroom.
Innocent to proven guilty in a court of law.
Tensions in court were high today as adult film star Stormy Daniels testified about her alleged sexual encounter with Donald Trump in 2006.
Ten years later, Daniels was paid $130,000 in a hush money scheme that is
at the heart of this criminal case. We'll hear from our reporter in the courtroom about the dramatic
testimony. We'll also hear a conversation with former Trump White House special counsel Ty Cobb.
He talks about the significance of Trump possibly facing jail time after Judge Juan
Roshan gave Trump a stern warning not to violate the gag
order again.
Stick around, we'll have both conversations after this break and on a Saturday, of course,
we will put this all in perspective.
We'll talk about the week and tell you what matters.
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You're listening to Trump's Trials. I'm Scott Detro. And now here's one of Summer's.
The woman at the center of the hush money scandal, Stormy Daniels, took the stand today
in Trump's criminal trial in New York. It was a contentious day of testimony.
NPR's Andrea Bernstein was there,
and she joins us now from outside the courthouse.
Andrea, as we mentioned, you were in court today.
Tell us what you saw and heard.
There have been a lot of men testifying in this trial,
like AMI publisher David Pecker,
Daniel's attorney Keith Davidson,
talking about buying and selling
and suppressing stories by women.
And then in came one of those women, Stormy Daniels, passing within feet of Trump.
But neither of them looked at each other.
And of course, that is highly unusual.
Everyone looks at Donald Trump when they pass him, except for the witnesses in this trial.
And then Daniels told her story in the courtroom, the one that's been, there's been so much
testimony about Trump and Cohen wanting to hush.
And Andrea, what did Stormy Daniels have to say?
She testified she met Donald Trump at a celebrity golf tournament in 2006 where the adult film
company she worked for was doing a promotion.
She says through his security guard, he invited her to dinner, but asked her to come up to
his hotel suite first.
And first she testified they discussed business,
but after she went to use the restroom,
she said she found him lying on the bed in his underwear,
after which they had sex.
She said she didn't feel threatened by him,
but she felt there was a power imbalance.
And then afterward, she said she felt ashamed,
but stayed in touch with Trump
because he dangled the possibility of a role
in the Celebrity Apprentice. There possibility of a role in the celebrity apprentice.
There was even a moment she testified when she saw Trump and Karen McDougall,
the other woman who received a hush money payment at an event in LA.
What was the reaction like? How did the defense react to all of this?
So Trump has denied any relationship with Daniels and all day the atmosphere was tense.
The defense tried to keep any discussion of sex from the jury
and repeatedly objected during her testimony.
Trump was extremely animated,
leaning over frequently to speak to his lawyers.
And then after lunch, they asked for a mistrial.
Trump attorney Todd Blanche said her testimony was, quote,
so prejudicial to President Trump
and the charges that are at issue in this case,
there is no remedy we can fashion to unring this bell. But Prosecutor Susan Hoffinger said this was
exactly what Trump was trying to hide in a payoff in 2016 in advance of the election.
The judge did not grant the mistrial, though he agreed there are things that were probably
better left unsaid.
And Andrea, what about the deal at the center of all of this, that hush money deal?
Danielle testified in 2016, by this time represented by an agent.
She decided to, she wanted to, as she said, document her story, but no one would buy it.
Then came the Access Hollywood tape and Michael Cohen and her lawyers came to an agreement
to buy her silence.
But then Cohen didn't pay up.
She grew nervous he would delay until after the election and then never pay her once Trump
had what he wanted, as she described it.
Eventually Cohen wired the money.
She maintained her silence until 2018 after the Wall Street Journal published the story
and chaos ensued.
Andrea, in a few sentences, you did mention it was tense from the beginning.
How did it go once the questioning began? The cross was pretty heated. Defense attorney Susan Neckless got Daniels to agree she hated
Trump. But the testimony of her relationship has been backed up with details in this courtroom.
Though she's given multiple contradictory statements in the past, all that came up.
Outside the courtroom, Trump said it was a very big day. All this continues
Thursday.
That's NPR's Andrea Bernstein. Thank you.
Thank you.
And now, Juana Sommers speaking with former Trump White House special counsel, Ty Cobb.
What do you think today was like for him in court?
I think it was miserable, particularly having to listen to the demeaning details that the
prosecution pursued, trying to get into the nitty gritty
of the actual encounter, as opposed to merely establishing the encounter, which I think
were the ground rules going in.
Hosting do you care to venture a guess for us on what the conversations between former
President Trump and his lawyers might have been after Stormy Daniels' testimony today?
Yes. I think as people, I think, have accurately
suggested that those conversations were Trump venting angrily about what he'd heard and
why it was allowed and urging his lawyers to vehemently object and asking, how could
this possibly happen in America? And to him, you know, he typically plays the victim and
the enraged victim when
things don't go his way. And I'm sure there was a lot of that going on at lunch. And I
think his lawyers tried to turn that into as professional an objection as they could.
I think they did effectively put forth a mistrial motion. The judge appropriately rejected
the motion.
I covered former President Trump's campaign for a time.
And so I know that we've often seen Trump react in situations like this one by going
on social media, attacking people like Stormy Daniels.
But this is different because Judge Mershon has said that if the former president violates
this gag order again, he will spend time in jail.
Do you think that Trump can stay quiet in this situation?
I don't personally, but we'll have to see. I think it'll be very difficult for him. spend time in jail, do you think that Trump can stay quiet in this situation?
I don't personally, but we'll have to see. I think it'll be very difficult for him. I
don't have any doubt that at some point between now and the end of the trial, he will violate
the gag order again. And depending on how egregious that violation is, I don't have any doubt that
the judge is prepared to give him some time, whether it's an hour,
whether it's several hours, whether it's overnight, remains to be seen. But I don't think the
judge will hesitate to put Trump in the lockup.
I mean, I know we use this word a lot when it comes to conversations about this trial,
but this would be incredibly unprecedented. What do you think that that could look like
for a former president? Not to mention a presumptive
Republican presidential nominee, if former President Trump did indeed see jail time for
continuing to violate that gag order?
Well, I think it's part of the continuing tragedy that is Trump for America.
I think it would be another sad milestone in the recent history of the degradation of
the presidency and sad choices that the country has made
and is presented with in terms of leadership these days.
I do want to ask you about one of the big moments that happened in court today when
Stormy Daniels testified about her alleged sexual encounter with former President Trump,
the hush money payments that then followed. What did you make of her testimony and how
the prosecution is presenting their case?
So I think the prosecution overreached today. I think the judge made it clear that he agrees
with that. I think a lot of this detail probably did not add much to the trial other than to
demean the former president and embarrass him. I think the rules of evidence are pretty
clear that that's not kosher. I think the judge was uncomfortable with it as he indicated in the dialogue during the mistrial motion, but it doesn't rise to
the level of mistrial. On the other hand, in combination with a lot of the other evidence
of other acts and salacious details that have come in through the trial, it will add to
the defense's, the strength of the defense's appeal. But whether that appeal is successful or not, you know, will occur long, long, long
after the, after the election, assuming Trump is convicted and not have any
impact on the, on the election and ultimately not really have any impact on
Trump.
That was former Trump White House attorney Ty Cobb.
Thank you.
You bet.
My pleasure.
Nice to be with you, Warner.
Thanks for listening to Trump's Trials from NPR.
Keep an eye out for more episodes like this whenever big news happens,
and we'll be back later this week with our regular show on Saturday.
I'm Scott Detro.
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